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Gender pay gap closing among German board members: men are slowly catching up

42 points by kleiba 4y ago

anshumankmr 4y ago
> men are slowly catching up How the turn tables...
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  I don't know, but my feeling is that this might be a symptom of selection of a very specific group of people? Note that there are also around 10x more men included in these groups.
lukastr0 4y ago
I'm confused. The title says this is about the pay gap among top CEOs. But all the charts in the presentation are about payment of board members EXCLUDING the CEO. Am I missing something, or is this title wildly inaccurate?
- shafyy 4y ago
  Yes, the title is wrong. The study is about "Vorstände", which means "board members".
- sirlantis 4y ago
  "Fixed, variable, and total board member compensation of DAX/MDAX/SDAX companies by gender (2013 to 2021) [GER]" would be my title suggestion
- fweimer 4y ago
  It's not about board members in the sense the term is used for U.S. public corporations. “Executive team” or “C-level employees” would probably be more accurate for comparison. These people are typically full-time employees of the corporation. Not external directories, no-show jobs, or anything like that. German public corporations have a separate board representing stakeholder interests. It's not a full-time job (typically just a few meetings per year, and in theory some legal responsibility), and some of the board members are not employed by the corporation. Considering the time commitment, typical compensation for board members is still very, very generous, but much lower annually than the numbers quoted in the report.
figrun 4y ago
[flagged]
badcppdev 4y ago
Relevant XKCD: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/882:_Significant https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/882:_Significant
eyko 4y ago
My german is not good but most (all?) graphs in the report seem to talk about executives or board members, but excluding CEOs (ohne CEOs). Does the title need an edit?
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  It does
Semaphor 4y ago
a) It’s about execs, excluding CEOs b) A relevant piece of information is the total number ("n=xxx" on the bars) which shows there are 6 times as many male execs as there are female ones.
- kleiba 4y ago
  The male/female distribution doesn't surprise me - the pay distribution does.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    It’s (as the PDF shows) been that way for quite a while. Women get into higher paying jobs less often, but if they do, they often get paid better.
    - kleiba 4y ago
      Correct. But that doesn't make it less surprising.
isolli 4y ago
It reminds me of the quip (which I think was true at some point): there are fewer women among the CEOs of DAX companies than there are men named Thomas.
sendfoods 4y ago
Why is this flagged @ HN? The title could use some cleanup, should be "board members", not CEO
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Besides the lie, it’s also editorialized to be clickbait.
  - sendfoods 4y ago
    which lie?
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      It being about CEOs
      - sendfoods 4y ago
        I honestly think it's a translation error.
zapnuk 4y ago
Woman make up ~14% of board members in Dax companies. However, somehow, the phrasing of this thread implies it’s the men that are disadvantaged. Curious what the intentions of op is. https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/frauenanteil-dax-konzerne-vorstand-albright-bericht-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/frauenanteil-dax-konzer...
- gyulai 4y ago
  > However, somehow, the phrasing of this thread implies it’s the men that are disadvantaged. Curious what the intentions of op is. It's rather obvious isn't it? There are fewer of them, but when they're there, they earn more.
  - kleiba 4y ago
    That's right. Women have been earning more for some time, but as this document shows, the gap is getting smaller.
- pretext-1 4y ago
  The article is about salary not voting power.
- kleiba 4y ago
  Since you're citing tagesschau.de, I see that there is an article about the topic of this thread there as well: https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/frauen-vorstaende-gehalt-dax-frauenquote-gehaltsunterschiede-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/frauen-vors...
Comevius 4y ago
It's board members, not CEOs. Women do 1.1% better for DAX (40 large cap companies), 0.1% better for SDAX (70 small cap companies) and 4.7% worst for MDAX (60 mid cap companies). So the few women that are board members in average are compensated 1.1% better at DAX companies, that's the story.
- kleiba 4y ago
  I think the story is that the difference in compensation is getting lower.

42 points by kleiba 4y ago

anshumankmr 4y ago

> men are slowly catching up How the turn tables...

Gasp0de 4y ago
I don't know, but my feeling is that this might be a symptom of selection of a very specific group of people? Note that there are also around 10x more men included in these groups.

lukastr0 4y ago

I'm confused. The title says this is about the pay gap among top CEOs. But all the charts in the presentation are about payment of board members EXCLUDING the CEO. Am I missing something, or is this title wildly inaccurate?

shafyy 4y ago
Yes, the title is wrong. The study is about "Vorstände", which means "board members".
sirlantis 4y ago
"Fixed, variable, and total board member compensation of DAX/MDAX/SDAX companies by gender (2013 to 2021) [GER]" would be my title suggestion
fweimer 4y ago
It's not about board members in the sense the term is used for U.S. public corporations. “Executive team” or “C-level employees” would probably be more accurate for comparison. These people are typically full-time employees of the corporation. Not external directories, no-show jobs, or anything like that. German public corporations have a separate board representing stakeholder interests. It's not a full-time job (typically just a few meetings per year, and in theory some legal responsibility), and some of the board members are not employed by the corporation. Considering the time commitment, typical compensation for board members is still very, very generous, but much lower annually than the numbers quoted in the report.

figrun 4y ago

[flagged]

badcppdev 4y ago

Relevant XKCD: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/882:_Significant https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/882:_Significant

eyko 4y ago

My german is not good but most (all?) graphs in the report seem to talk about executives or board members, but excluding CEOs (ohne CEOs). Does the title need an edit?

Gasp0de 4y ago
It does

Semaphor 4y ago

a) It’s about execs, excluding CEOs b) A relevant piece of information is the total number ("n=xxx" on the bars) which shows there are 6 times as many male execs as there are female ones.

kleiba 4y ago
The male/female distribution doesn't surprise me - the pay distribution does.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  It’s (as the PDF shows) been that way for quite a while. Women get into higher paying jobs less often, but if they do, they often get paid better.
  - kleiba 4y ago
    Correct. But that doesn't make it less surprising.

isolli 4y ago

It reminds me of the quip (which I think was true at some point): there are fewer women among the CEOs of DAX companies than there are men named Thomas.

sendfoods 4y ago

Why is this flagged @ HN? The title could use some cleanup, should be "board members", not CEO

Semaphor 4y ago
Besides the lie, it’s also editorialized to be clickbait.
- sendfoods 4y ago
  which lie?
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    It being about CEOs
    - sendfoods 4y ago
      I honestly think it's a translation error.

zapnuk 4y ago

Woman make up ~14% of board members in Dax companies. However, somehow, the phrasing of this thread implies it’s the men that are disadvantaged. Curious what the intentions of op is. https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/frauenanteil-dax-konzerne-vorstand-albright-bericht-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/frauenanteil-dax-konzer...

gyulai 4y ago
> However, somehow, the phrasing of this thread implies it’s the men that are disadvantaged. Curious what the intentions of op is. It's rather obvious isn't it? There are fewer of them, but when they're there, they earn more.
- kleiba 4y ago
  That's right. Women have been earning more for some time, but as this document shows, the gap is getting smaller.
pretext-1 4y ago
The article is about salary not voting power.
kleiba 4y ago
Since you're citing tagesschau.de, I see that there is an article about the topic of this thread there as well: https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/frauen-vorstaende-gehalt-dax-frauenquote-gehaltsunterschiede-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/frauen-vors...

Comevius 4y ago

It's board members, not CEOs. Women do 1.1% better for DAX (40 large cap companies), 0.1% better for SDAX (70 small cap companies) and 4.7% worst for MDAX (60 mid cap companies). So the few women that are board members in average are compensated 1.1% better at DAX companies, that's the story.

kleiba 4y ago
I think the story is that the difference in compensation is getting lower.