5 ms·

I mean, if it was just the title that happened, but actually the big layoffs coincided with the person moving from India to Canada, thus something like this was

• senko 4y ago
  He uprooted his life, moved across the globe, then got laid off and is likely facing a prospect of having to leave Canada (not familiar with work visa types there). This sucks, and the fact "it was bound to happen" (which is incorrect, it's not a law of nature) does not absolve Meta.
  • anshumankmr 4y ago
    Exactly what I was going to say.We need to have empathy every once in a while. 11K people being fired from Meta seems abstract but these are 11K families that have been at least temporarily disrupted.
    • autotune 4y ago
      I have been laid off, or close to being laid off in that I had to leave, something like 3 different positions since the start of the pandemic and unemployed for around 6 months (doing amazing now in a recent role but that is besides the point). Was borderline close to being forced to move back in with my parents. I never got a story written up for me about that. I feel sympathy for many of those folks, but why should this guy, or anyone else at META, get so much press for themselves? These things have happened quietly in the background all the time in the industry in the past and nobody bats an eye until now because "META." It is kind of annoying.
      • gwnywg 4y ago
        I'd say it's good we have so much press for this case, maybe he got attention you had not but in my opinion it's good for community if cases like this get highlighted, even if it's not my case...
        • autotune 4y ago
          What about the case that happened so many times to contractors and employees like him in the past that didn't get coverage at lesser known companies? Why are so many people pretending to care now?
          • lm28469 4y ago
            People put up with slavery and working 14 hours per day in the mine for a while, why did they suddenly start complain ? Why do you defend megacorps while you've been victim of the exact same shitty behaviour in the past ? Stockholm syndrome ?
            • autotune 4y ago
              How am I "defending megacorps" right now? I am literally knocking them down because people are worshiping them and focusing only on the people affected by them instead of writing about this type of practice that has happened literally everywhere at this point. What you wrote is straight up double speak nonsense.
              • lm28469 4y ago
                You said he shouldn't complained because it happened to you and you didn't complain. You should be happy people start complaining
                • autotune 4y ago
                  No, because it has happened to others at companies in the past all the time to people have been complaining for years. By your logic we should only care about practices good or bad that happen at META companies, and the rest fall by the wayside. It's ridiculous that this story makes HN front page, yet the woman who recently won a lawsuit for $366 million due to racial discrimination at FedEx doesn't because "not META."
      • curiousgal 4y ago
        I mean your feelings and experience and valid but following the same logic, no one should complain about anything because there's always someone who has been the through the same hell if not worse. If they could get some resolution, good for them, for the rest of us, oh well life is unfair. (This is coming from a woman who grew up in a Muslim country and sees women around her complain about video game representation lol)
        • autotune 4y ago
          People are free to complain however they want, it just really irks me that this is suddenly getting press now because "META."
          • curiousgal 4y ago
            I understand that but you can just brush it off to the media being the media and move on with your day.
            • autotune 4y ago
              Or, I can complain about for a few minutes into the void before I have had my coffee this morning.
      • lm28469 4y ago
        "My life sucked but I didn't say anything so you better shut up about your problems" I never understood people who think like that. It's no ok and people shouldn't feel ok about it
        • autotune 4y ago
          If he managed to get hired at META he will find work elsewhere. This is not worthy of a story suddenly just because it happened at a META company.
          • user_7832 4y ago
            > This is not worthy of a story suddenly just because it happened at a META company. You're right. This behavior by a company should be criticized regardless of whether or not they're large or famous. ...Though it appears that you don't think any such stories should exist?
            • autotune 4y ago
              >...Though it appears that you don't think any such stories should exist? Where did you get that idea from?
              • user_7832 4y ago
                I mean your comments talk about how "everyone has it, why is this particular story news". Which makes it sound like you don't get the point of this specific story existing (sorry for poor grammar/wording).
                • autotune 4y ago
                  The line of thought I am at least trying to present here is that we should have been talking about stories like this and making them well known that have been happening throughout the industry well before hitting MANGA companies.
      • anshumankmr 4y ago
        I,too, have been impacted by layoffs. I myself was at a "unicorn" startup in my country and couldn't continue there once the pandemic began. I didn't get a story about me personally either (that being said there was quite a lot of articles about the events that happened where I worked). That being said, its a little different for this guy cause a) as the parent commenter mentioned, the guy uprooted his life and moved to a new country and laid off almost instantaneously. b) I don't think he asked the press to write a story on him, he wrote a LinkedIn post c) this isn't the Time magazine doing a puff piece for somebody, it's just some person from Business Insider who saw a viral post on LinkedIn and wrote a story about it.
        • autotune 4y ago
          And how many times has that happened in the past with nobody batting an eye about it? Why does it only matter now that it's at a META company?
          • anshumankmr 4y ago
            I think you answered it yourself, right? MAANG are the poster children of Big-Tech and that invites clicks and views. That being said, if people are more aware of such things, there is a chance we can ask for better conditions in the future.
            • autotune 4y ago
              I guess you have a point.
          • JKCalhoun 4y ago
            I suspect some of the criticism you are getting in these comments is due to comments of yours that seem to point to the villain in this case as The Media for not, I guess, reporting all misguided layoffs. Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps the solution to these heartless layoffs is to put a spotlight on each and every one of them in order to shame and embarrass the executives at all companies. But I suspect many people see instead deflection — you are absolving Meta's management because The Media dropped the ball a long time ago.
      • autoexec 4y ago
        > Was borderline close to being forced to move back in with my parents. I never got a story written up for me about that. Nobody was talking about your personal struggle so now nobody should be allowed to talk about anyone else's? I'll never understand that weird crab bucket mentality. You somehow manage to start from "These things have happened quietly in the background all the time in the industry" and instead of ending up at "I'm so glad people are talking about this more because I've been through it and it sucks and we should find some way to make these horrible things happen less often!" you instead opt for "Who cares about this issue! Things sucked for me once and nobody said anything about it so now it's annoying when the media calls attention to anyone else who is struggling!" That's just weird.
        • autotune 4y ago
          No, I am saying things have sucked for people for years when it comes to layoffs. Many have similar stories as the person who this was written about now. Why is it only getting attention now with people who managed to get hired at a FAANG?
          • autoexec 4y ago
            > Why is it only getting attention now with people who managed to get hired at a FAANG? It's a good thing when corporations who treat their employees like shit get called out for their behavior. It's bad that they haven't always been called out for it in the past, but that doesn't mean that no one should be doing it now. I suppose we can ask ourselves why this case managed to get the media's attention... I suspect that this story may have gotten more people's attention because facebook/meta is a big company with lots of brand recognition, facebook/meta has a ton of money and could easily afford to treat their employees better, and because they really screwed this guy over and his situation is a worse version of what a lot of people are going through after recent layoffs so perhaps business insider thought this story would resonate with a lot of workers. Really no matter what the reason is for this story getting media attention it's a good thing that people are talking about it now! Hopefully sharing these stories and talking about these issues will bring attention to the problems outside of FAANG as well.
    • oweiler 4y ago
      Do we show empathy towards non-tech workers? Where being laid off is close to a death sentence? Most devs are in a very privileged position.
  • tibbydudeza 4y ago
    A lot of H1B visa holders has been impacted by the layoffs at Twitter.
  • mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Having empathy has nothing to do with recognising that lay-offs happen and that the fact that someone had just relocated is not a good reason to protect them from lay-offs. There is no wrong that needs 'absolving' here. What the employer can be judged on in such situation is how they handle it and, indeed, how empathic and helpful their are, but that's a different issue.
    • googlryas 4y ago
      Just relocated shouldn't protect them, but just hired should. Wouldn't it be smarter for Meta to cut one more far-below average employee, and give this unknown quantity a shot at succeeding?
      • mytailorisrich 4y ago
        > Just relocated shouldn't protect them, but just hired should. Obviously not. If they've just been hired it means that they are the least trained and least operational, and in any case that has no bearing on the continued existence of the role they were hired for.
        • googlryas 4y ago
          Should as in 'logically' or 'in good sense' should, not 'legally' or 'physically' should. Yes, they are immediately less operational than a long term mediocre employee, but their potential is much higher on average. I'm assuming that it wasn't merely that entire roles were laid off, but something like some percentage of given roles were laid off.
  • byroot 4y ago
    > is likely facing a prospect of having to leave Canada (not familiar with work visa types there) Unless it changed in the last few years, Canadian work permits allow you to continue to reside in the country for the duration of their validity, even if you lose your employment. The vast majority of them are tied to an employer though, so even if you find another job, you need to go through the process again, which takes quite a lot of time.
    • Broken_Hippo 4y ago
      That is the thing: They can stay, but they can't work for someone else. No income makes it very difficult to stick around and look for a job. At least they get a severance package: It'd be worse without it.
      • byroot 4y ago
        Absolutely, I wasn't saying it's a good situation to be in, just that it doesn't legally force them to leave Canada immediately.
    • senko 4y ago
      > Canadian work permits allow you to continue to reside in the country [...] majority of them are tied to an employer though. I understand there must be some rationale behind this, but from an outside viewpoint it's quite bizarre. The incentives are exactly opposite of what one would expect (either move out or become productive member of the society as easily as possible).
      • byroot 4y ago
        Canada don't care much whether immigrants are "productive members of society". You're free to spend your money in Canada, and as an immigrant without a job, you won't benefit from much welfare and such. The only thing they care about regarding work permits is wether the job the immigrant will occupy could be filled by a Canadian citizen.
  • qaq 4y ago
    Unlike US he might actually have a Permanent Resident status that he hasn't had to wait for his whole life.
  • wslh 4y ago
    If we trust Mark Zuckerberg's message [1], and in his CEO position and responsabilities within a public company I think we should trust him, he wrote: "Immigration support. I know this is especially difficult if you’re here on a visa. There’s a notice period before termination and some visa grace periods, which means everyone will have time to make plans and work through their immigration status. We have dedicated immigration specialists to help guide you based on what you and your family need." [1] https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/mark-zuckerberg-layoff-message-to-employees/ https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/mark-zuckerberg-layoff-mes...
• stefan_ 4y ago
  Are you trying to make a distinction without a difference? Nope, hiring for a role you expect to cut at the same time is not the decent or even sane thing to do.
  • quickthrower2 4y ago
    I think not many people would have known until the last minute
  • Suvitruf 4y ago
    I think people who made decision to hire him and people who made layoffs are different people.
    • gwnywg 4y ago
      I'm wondering if that makes Meta look any better.. I am receiving invitations to move to Canada or to US, I have also spent more than a decade working in different countries.. I can relate to that person, it's horrible that any company can do something like this with no consequences.
    • Tomte 4y ago
      That's why we don't blame a specific person, but the company.
    • jfoster 4y ago
      In the same organization. Therefore, it is insanity at the organization level, even if it might be sane at the individual level.
    • satyrnein 4y ago
      Indeed, the recruiter he was working with could very well have been laid off as well.
• kumarvvr 4y ago
  Depends on if 1) Did Meta ask him to move? 2) Did they change their remote work policies such that he does not have any other choice but to move? 3) Was he working in Meta India, and being sent on an on-site opportunity, in which case, some prefer to move with their families. If answer is yes to any of the above questions, then yeah Meta is at fault. The person deserves atleast a contractual position till he is able to move back to India or find a job in Canada. Alternatively, he can be compensated to account for the complete disruption of his life. People in India liquidate assets to move abroad. This may be an absolute life changing and costly decision for him and his family.
• jfoster 4y ago
  If it was bound to happen, why was Meta doing it?
• matkoniecz 4y ago
  Facebook should put hiring freeze first. Setting up situation where "something like this was bound to happen" is FB fault, and makes it worse rather than absolving them.