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> Regarding the language. The only thing you’re going to hear as a response to that entitlement: “this is Germany, we do this the German way”. I’m not German, j

• rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  He looked into opening a GmbH, not the other way around. He wants to do business in Germany. You can absolutely go through this process without speaking German but it will cost you money in lawyers. > I think his point is, English is the lingua-franca of the internet and international business. Maybe the Internet, yes. But international business? I don’t think so. Maybe from a perspective of native English-speaking person it appears to him like that. But it’s not the case in many non-English speaking countries.
  • tormeh 4y ago
    > Maybe the Internet, yes. But international business? I don’t think so. Maybe from a perspective of native English-speaking person it appears to him like that. But it’s not the case in any non-English speaking country. When a Swedish company does business with a Portuguese company, they speak English. Other languages are used for domestic business. International business is done in English. There are exceptions to the rule like the Francophonie, but let's not be pedantic. You may learn some phrases of the other party's language as a gesture of goodwill and politeness (and honestly it's kinda fun use of company time), but the actual important talks take place in English.
    • raverbashing 4y ago
      > When a Swedish company does business with a Portuguese company, they speak English. Correct, and they both feel less entitled about the other part not speaking their language as English native speakers do
      • germandiago 4y ago
        > and they both feel less entitled about the other part not speaking their language as English native speakers do Have a couple of stories about this. Yes, some people think that you should know their language when they just speak theirs. I do not find it too polite, honestly. Especially a couple of times I saw things that even once made me jump in and say: "how many languages do you speak?" He was abroad, you know, in Asia. And I had to reply: "what makes you think everyone should speak english? You are not even in an english speaking country". It is not nice to see people behave like that. I think it made the locals feel insulted, not bc he cannot speak the local language. It was because of the attitude of demanding the others to talk to him in english. English is the most used second language. But noone said each of us must learn it. Just my two cents.
    • pjmlp 4y ago
      We might speak English but you will be signing everything in Portuguese. And depending on the education we also speak Spanish, French, German and Italian, as the main learning paths in high school available to chose from. But again, legal documents, Portuguese.
      • Kiro 4y ago
        Why would a contract for an international deal not be in English?
        • rozenmd 4y ago
          Because legally, the contract has to be in the jurisdiction's official language
          • Xylakant 4y ago
            That’s not true - you can have a contract in any language in Germany. But the first thing that a court adjucating any dispute would do is have a certified translator translate it into German - at your cost. And that translation will be out of your control. So it makes sense to have a German contract, so at least you know what the contract says going to court.
            • Major_Grooves 4y ago
              correct - all our actual investment documents are in English.
            • rad_gruchalski 4y ago
              Plus, if during the certification of the translation it comes up that the document does not comply with the legal requirements, it may lead to a contract invalidation. It can be really expensive depending on the matter of the dispute.
          • thomascarney 4y ago
            You can choose both the law and forum in many types of commercial agreements. Typically international contracts will choose English law as the governing law.
    • belorn 4y ago
      Sweden went through a massive cultural swing towards English/US culture in the later 90s and then at full speed through the later decades. English was initial an alternative language that Swedes could optionally pick at the age of 15-18 (a choice between German, french and English). Then it became a graduation requirement for all students at that age group (with German and french being delegated to a third optional choice), and then English moved down the age groups and now Swedish children learn it beginning as early as age 8-9. English has become a second required language in Sweden throughout the education system.
  • dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
    > But international business? I don’t think so. Pray tell what the language of international business is in the EU.
    • rad_gruchalski 4y ago
      Between which countries?
      • dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
        Poland and Estonia.
        • rad_gruchalski 4y ago
          Okay, and what about Poland and Germany? Or Germany and France? Or Belgium and The Netherlands? Or Germany and Italy? Can you with 100% confidence tell that all companies in all cases between those countries do business in English? What about a Belgian company from Wallonia and a French partner? Or Luxemburg and Wallonia?
          • barry-cotter 4y ago
            > Can you with 100% confidence tell that all companies in all cases between those countries do business in English? No, but in every one of those cases English is the way to bet. > What about a Belgian company from Wallonia and a French partner? Or Luxemburg and Wallonia? Almost certainly French because it’s the working language of both companies. If people share a native language they’ll use that. Otherwise the default is English. It’s not certain that they’ll use English but Siemens doesn’t expect its international partners to have German speaking partners for dealing with it; it does expect its executives to speak English. Just as science has a lingua franca so does business. It is English.
            • smugma 4y ago
              This is all true but as an American (I grew up speaking a different not European language), Europeans' ability to switch languages is interesting/fun. Once I had a business meeting in Switzerland. It was all in English (for me, the American), but at one point they were speaking German to each other. And later in the hallway, they switched to speaking French with the lawyer who was there with me. And at lunch in the restaurant attached to the office, the Swiss German host ordered his food in Italian.
• sdfhbdf 4y ago
  > maybe it's a good idea to add EN i18n. Unless you’re looking for a country to change it’s official language to English I think this is a wrong direction. The law is in German, it’s interpreted in German, if there’s some misunderstanding or a mistake in filings it will be heard in court in German. It’s better to set expectations early. All legal processes are held in country’s native language. It is better to NOT provide “official” i18n of the process of starting the company, which unless you’re then willing to support the whole process in this foreign language. How do you also then make sure that the English translation is fully legally equivalent to the German version?
  • deepsun 4y ago
    I agree, however Estonia does provide EN option to boost their venture economy.
    • ricardobayes 4y ago
      Irish company tax is lower than Estonia and the process equally simple. Estonia, like Portugal, does one thing very right and its PR. But once you scratch the surface there are much better options out there to have a company or to live in.
      • germandiago 4y ago
        I am genuinely interested in good places to live where: - it is not cold, if possible - the tax rate is low (even if I have to pay services later myself but with my own choice) - the hospitals and school system are good, even if private - it is not difficult/expensive to open a business I am all ears :)
        • mchaver 4y ago
          A few ideas: Singapore: probably meets all of your requirements. Low tax, easy to open a business, lots of private schools. No idea how to rate the hospitals, it has a couple in the best hospital lists in the world, but I don't trust those. Drawback is everything is expensive. Andorra: not cold for Northern European standards. Low tax, a couple of international schools, private medicine, you should be able to access the private medical system in Spain. A few inconveniences are no train, no airport (closest are Barcelona and Toulouse), custom inspections into France or Spain, generally isolated feeling and tourist centered feeling. Portugal: Warm and friendly people with good food. I don't know anything about the schools or medical system. Bureaucracy probably isn't great. Low tax for a couple of years. Unfortunately local citizens do not benefit it so a foreigner taking advantage of it is likely displacing a local. Feels very unfair. Puerto Rico: not cold, no US federal taxes. If you are a US citizen and non-resident and move there, there are some other tax benefits, but people who were already residents can't take advantage of it. Lots of infrastructure problems.
• AlbertCory 4y ago
  I wouldn't expect the forms to be in English, because that would be Ugly American. It would be very hip for them to do it, but that's their choice. Almost every educated adult under 60 there speaks English, as far as I can tell. I would note, though, that in a court proceeding, one side can pay for simultaneous English translations (I don't know about other languages). I know this because of the German map patent I worked on. I didn't get to go to Germany for the hearings, but if I had, we would have gotten the English service.
  • the_common_man 4y ago
    > Almost every educated adult under 60 there speaks English, as far as I can tell. This is not true in Berlin, atleast. Even the immigration office may not speak English.
    • barry-cotter 4y ago
      I can see why in Berlin people who hang out in bourgeois spaces would think that. Almost every university graduate under 40 is able to speak English and an awful lot of those under that age. Germany isn’t like Scandinavia where everyone without severe educational issues speaks English well but it’s another world compared to Italy, and Berlin has unusually high levels of competence in English for Germany.
      • Haga 4y ago
      • still_grokking 4y ago
        > Berlin has unusually high levels of competence in English for Germany I would not confirm that. In Berlin everybody speaks at least some English, and more importantly, people are way less "shy" to do so. But the overall level of education (and that includes foreign languages) is much much lower in Berlin than in the southern states. You can even get your Abitur in Berlin without having to take English exams. That's something that's impossible in say Bavaria.
• croes 4y ago
  The problem is legal texts are complicated even if you are german. Translation brings in ambiguity.
  • jevgeni 4y ago
    You being downvoted just shows how HN struggles with things like law practice, which are outside this echo chamber.
  • piaste 4y ago
    In Denmark I received English copies of various work / housing contracts, with a very clear disclaimer "in case of any disputes, the Danish text applies". I believe we did the same in Italy with foreign clients - Italian binding text, English courtesy non-binding copy. Such a copy is good enough to use for 95% of the negotiation process. Then, if it's a serious business contract, you get a sworn translator to check its accuracy before the final signing. (In my case, since the Danish ones were standard contracts, I just checked that they didn't differ from the publicly available texts).
• shapefrog 4y ago
  They can't even be bothered to learn the language ...
• aden1ne 4y ago
  It is a mistake to think merely translating bureaucratic lingo will suddenly lead to an understanding of it. Even if the individual words are understood, it is likely the meaning is still lost. Translating bureaucratic lingo may certainly speed up the route to understanding, but one would still need to internalize laws and processes. Most bureaucratic lingo is tricky even for natives. Example from Dutch bureaucracy: "A household receiving an allowance under the Participation Act must contend with the Cost Sharing Norm". That's all nominally English, but effectively gibberish without an understanding of what the Participation Act is all about. There is no easy technical solution at hand here. That doesn't mean the author doesn't have a point concerning the notoriously obtuse German bureaucratic machine. But any real solution will have to involve a cultural change.