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> in developed nations soon to be significant falling populations Are there any studies how much of this is caused by hormone levels and medical infertility? .

> in developed nations soon to be significant falling populations Are there any studies how much of this is caused by hormone levels and medical infertility? ....and how much is caused by people studying until 25 and working on their careers until 35 before they even star trying (compared to going to highschool until 18, starting a job at 19 and making kids at 20)? Also, how many people can actually afford to move to a place with an extra room for a child + all the extra expenses when you actually get a child? I know it's anecdotal, but i know very few couples who want a kid, but are unable to get one while trying... i know more than that people, who didn't want a kid, but it "just happened", and i know A LOT more people, who'd like a kid, but "when they can afford one", and that 'when' isn't 'now' (mostly due to housing prices) edit: also looking at a whole population, there is a huge difference if you start making kids at 20 (since you have time to raise 2, 3, even more... if you can afford them) or if you start making your first at 35, where the biological clock is showing it's signs, and even a second kid is a big "if", if you don't start immediately after the first one.

boringg 4y ago
I know many many people have had to try for years to have children. Its a difficult lonely costly journey. Far more that have wanted to children and have had complications then the other way around. Funny how one persons experience is the polar opposite of another's.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  I know basically only people that: A, are popping them out like rabbits, or B, cannot seem to have children at all.
bhouston 4y ago
Non affordable housing and day care are part of the problem. Delaying childbirth and not realizing that this delay may lead to fertility problems is also an issue. But there does appear to also be rising infertility as well at the same time and lots of chemicals that disrupt hormones (the latest target for legislation is PFAS/forever chemicals) and dropping sex hormone levels. I am not saying that things are not multi factor but that to dismiss hormones going weird as just nothing to worry about is not correct.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  I think I agree with the author that for average joe, there is nothing to be gained by worrying about it. The phenomenon is worrisome, but qualified people are already working on it, and will likely succeed in halting or reversing the decline. If they can’t… well, we’re probably fucked regardless of what joe does, so again, no point in worrying.
  - bhouston 4y ago
    This can be said about global warming back in the 1990s. Experts are working on it and it isn’t really an issue for the average joe so don’t worry about it. You are not wrong that it isn’t a near term concern but I witnessed the lack of progress on global warming in the 1980s and 1990s and do not completely trust experts to make progress by themselves without a larger awareness at the societal level that there is an issue. In many ways the problem isn’t experts but at some point you need politicians involved and they only really react when the voters care. And thus you need the average joe to care so that polticians care and act. I think that this is the global warming-like issue of the next 3 decades. The author of this piece basically concluding that there was no issue. She didn’t conclude that it wasn’t a concern for the average joe but that there wasn’t an issue. That is wrong.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      There was just a story on HN (now dead) about 400 private jets flying the politicians and other rich people down to the climate change conference in egypt (COP27). It would be a lot easier to make people care, if the people speaking the loudest about climate change would actually behave in the way they want 'others' to behave.
      - ChoGGi 4y ago
        Worse than COP26 (118 jets) https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-...
treeman79 4y ago
Interesting article on younger elephants without a dad having crazy hormones and killing all the rhinos. They had to bring in “dad” elephants to put a stop to it. The hormone levels would drop when a big male was around. https://www.bbcearth.com/news/teenage-elephants-need-a-father-figure https://www.bbcearth.com/news/teenage-elephants-need-a-fathe...
solraph 4y ago
> and i know A LOT more people, who'd like a kid, but "when they can afford one", and that 'when' isn't 'now' (mostly due to housing prices) On top that, I think stress from modern life contributes a lot. Anecdotally, my partner and I had been trying for over a year, and as soon as we went on holiday and detached from our stressful jobs for a couple of weeks... boom, pregnancy. I can't say if life easier or harder 30 to 50 years ago, but there definitely seems to be a lot more stressed people than there used to be.
bamboozled 4y ago
I think it's just as you say, lifestyle. I don't know many younger couples who haven't rather easily been able to have a baby. I know huge amount of people, even in their 30s, 40s and 50s talking about kids. Would have to be the first time in history I'd imagine?
- Auracle 4y ago
  My wife and I tried in our mid to late twenties.We ended up needing to do IVF and the people in the waiting room largely looked a lot like us - decently young, fit, etc. I wish there was better data on this over the years.

boringg 4y ago

I know many many people have had to try for years to have children. Its a difficult lonely costly journey. Far more that have wanted to children and have had complications then the other way around. Funny how one persons experience is the polar opposite of another's.

Aeolun 4y ago
I know basically only people that: A, are popping them out like rabbits, or B, cannot seem to have children at all.

bhouston 4y ago

Non affordable housing and day care are part of the problem. Delaying childbirth and not realizing that this delay may lead to fertility problems is also an issue. But there does appear to also be rising infertility as well at the same time and lots of chemicals that disrupt hormones (the latest target for legislation is PFAS/forever chemicals) and dropping sex hormone levels. I am not saying that things are not multi factor but that to dismiss hormones going weird as just nothing to worry about is not correct.

Aeolun 4y ago
I think I agree with the author that for average joe, there is nothing to be gained by worrying about it. The phenomenon is worrisome, but qualified people are already working on it, and will likely succeed in halting or reversing the decline. If they can’t… well, we’re probably fucked regardless of what joe does, so again, no point in worrying.
- bhouston 4y ago
  This can be said about global warming back in the 1990s. Experts are working on it and it isn’t really an issue for the average joe so don’t worry about it. You are not wrong that it isn’t a near term concern but I witnessed the lack of progress on global warming in the 1980s and 1990s and do not completely trust experts to make progress by themselves without a larger awareness at the societal level that there is an issue. In many ways the problem isn’t experts but at some point you need politicians involved and they only really react when the voters care. And thus you need the average joe to care so that polticians care and act. I think that this is the global warming-like issue of the next 3 decades. The author of this piece basically concluding that there was no issue. She didn’t conclude that it wasn’t a concern for the average joe but that there wasn’t an issue. That is wrong.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    There was just a story on HN (now dead) about 400 private jets flying the politicians and other rich people down to the climate change conference in egypt (COP27). It would be a lot easier to make people care, if the people speaking the loudest about climate change would actually behave in the way they want 'others' to behave.
    - ChoGGi 4y ago
      Worse than COP26 (118 jets) https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-...

treeman79 4y ago

Interesting article on younger elephants without a dad having crazy hormones and killing all the rhinos. They had to bring in “dad” elephants to put a stop to it. The hormone levels would drop when a big male was around. https://www.bbcearth.com/news/teenage-elephants-need-a-father-figure https://www.bbcearth.com/news/teenage-elephants-need-a-fathe...

solraph 4y ago

> and i know A LOT more people, who'd like a kid, but "when they can afford one", and that 'when' isn't 'now' (mostly due to housing prices) On top that, I think stress from modern life contributes a lot. Anecdotally, my partner and I had been trying for over a year, and as soon as we went on holiday and detached from our stressful jobs for a couple of weeks... boom, pregnancy. I can't say if life easier or harder 30 to 50 years ago, but there definitely seems to be a lot more stressed people than there used to be.

bamboozled 4y ago

I think it's just as you say, lifestyle. I don't know many younger couples who haven't rather easily been able to have a baby. I know huge amount of people, even in their 30s, 40s and 50s talking about kids. Would have to be the first time in history I'd imagine?

Auracle 4y ago
My wife and I tried in our mid to late twenties.We ended up needing to do IVF and the people in the waiting room largely looked a lot like us - decently young, fit, etc. I wish there was better data on this over the years.