6 ms·

Giving feedback is fraught. Some people take it SUPER poorly, which ruins it for the rest of us. I think it's fair to ask what module of a multi-part interview

Giving feedback is fraught. Some people take it SUPER poorly, which ruins it for the rest of us. I think it's fair to ask what module of a multi-part interview was scored the lowest, and maybe that would give you some direction. If it makes you feel any better, I regularly see experienced people from (insert any of the 4-5 top tier tech company names) that fall flat on their face in a coding interview. Not practicing for 6 years doesn't make you better at this specific skill. At my current company, we understand that and work around it in the interview process, there is plenty of room to flex system architecture muscles or other mastery to override a lacking DS&A module. Table stakes (and it sucks to say this, but it's true) is you've mastered the leetcode/cracking the coding interview style questions. I'm a self taught SW engineer so I had to spend about a year cranking on these type of questions before I was proficient. I spend a month or two reviewing before I start any interview cycle. Do you have any idea where your weaknesses might be?

ineedausername 4y ago
I've been grinding LC myself for the last half a year or so, it is fun but at the same time it sucks that we need to do this to pass interviews.
- throwaway675309 4y ago
  Just a counterpoint I've been working in the software engineering industry for 20 years and never once had to do any sort of grinding on leet code or anything else. I've found that the problem-solving whiteboarding that is common in the industry reflects my university comp sci education (binary tree, big O notation, etc). On the other hand, I also have zero interest in working for a FAANG so that might have something to do with it.
  - MarkMarine 4y ago
    If you have good recall and a solid comp sci background you’ll pass the table stakes part of the interview no problem. Crazy thing is I get candidates all the time who can’t explain any data structure beyond a list or map. I was trying to set a bar so the OP could know what to improve on if that was the weak point. Is it right that a lot of companies want you to invert a binary tree on a whiteboard to get a 400-600k TC job? I dunno. But that is the state of things, to me it seems pretty easy to just study for a couple months and then remove that hurdle from the process.
morgante 4y ago
> Some people take it SUPER poorly, which ruins it for the rest of us. Yeah, unfortunately some candidates get very abusive if you tell them why you've chosen not to move forward (ex. one sent me numerous nasty emails for months after they were rejected). I still like to give feedback to everyone, because I'd rather live in a more honest and direct culture, but it's very understandable why most employers don't.
- ZeroSolstice 4y ago
  My thoughts are that companies don't receive any return in giving you feedback and it's easier to claim retaliation/fear/liability* as the reasoning for not doing it. I'm not sure why anyone thinks ghosting the person reduces their ability to retaliate. Maybe a company could ask a candidate to sign a NDA if they would like feedback otherwise let them know they may not hear back from you. I don't discount your situation above or pretend to know all the aspects, however objectively looking at it, blocking the persons email address would solve some of those issues. I assume most places do this. Noting that even if you didn't give them feedback, ghosted, or rejected them, they could have also sent numerous nasty emails anyway. I would like to see at some point some of the same professionalism, such as you show with your feedback to candidate's, from all companies that "evidently" have huge wishlists and want to hire professionals. * I haven't found any sites or papers that have tracked giving / not giving feedback to candidate's and the prospective results outside of anecdotal situations. * I did notice that some places such as Dragos do list feed back as part of the process. <https://www.dragos.com/blog/what-to-expect-when-interviewing-at-dragos/ https://www.dragos.com/blog/what-to-expect-when-interviewing...>
zach_garwood 4y ago
I suppose my weakness is that I don't apply to companies that have LeetCode interviews. But seriously, I honestly dont know. When I ask for feedback, even during the interview, I get, at best, a "I think you're doing fine" answer.
- rsj_hn 4y ago
  All the companies I worked with, the interview process is a bit like this: * there is a pool of interviewers for each set of subjects * hiring manager picks the subjects, and thus people are signed up for that pool get an interview slot. * interviewers talk to the candidate one on one (sometimes two on one if there is someone in training or it's a pair panel). They avoid talking to each other until everyone finished with their interviews, so as not to bias each interview. No "This candidate is great" -- never discuss the candidate until everyone is done. * interviewers fill out a form with feedback. The form contains info about what was asked and how the candidate did. * hiring manager gets all the forms and makes a decision based on what is on the form. No side channel "Hey, I said 'hire', but really it should be a 'no hire'". If the hiring manager has a question, there is a recorded feedback mechanism in the form where details can be solicited. * HR keeps all the feedback forms Asking if you were better or worse than the previous candidate is a no-no. They are not going to tell you, and you shouldn't ask. Because of that, you can't gauge whether you are the best candidate or not, which means you don't know if you got the job. You can ask if you did well, and they will give you a bland "You did fine", because they don't know if you will be hired or not. Also, most interviewers understand that it is a pain, so when they say "I appreciate you coming in", they usually mean it. Everyone's been on the other side, and we really do appreciate you coming in, and most of the time you really did do fine, and that's all we can say. It's rare to get a really bad interview. In those cases where the interview is awful, I try to say find something positive and then say "well, try not to worry too much". The goal is to be honest, non-committal, and supportive at the same time - because maybe the person might come back and interview later, or maybe they will tell their colleagues, and the last thing you want to do is to give them a bad experience or make them think you are giving them a hard time just because they couldn't answer some questions. Only the hiring manager knows, at the end of the process, what all the feedback is. Even if you think they did great, if several other people on the panel don't, it's probably a no-hire. The person who met you at the door, offered you coffee, and is shepherding people in and out of the room doesn't know, either. They will try to make you comfortable, make sure everything goes smoothly, and tell you that you did fine. Only in extreme cases will you get meaningful feedback during the interview. One time I asked one of our standard questions, and the candidate refused to answer. He started arguing with me, saying it wasn't a good question. It was pretty shocking. We don't just ask any question, the questions are reviewed by other people. If I give you a program and ask you to calculate the running time, don't refuse to do that because you don't like the program. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, just answer the question. After you answer the question, you can mention why this type of program is often unnecessary. So that was one situation where I gave feedback, along the lines of "It's not a good interview if you don't answer the question". Please don't have a chip on your shoulder. I know interviews can be irritating and nerve wracking, but let's just get through it with professionalism and a minimum of drama. Odds are good that you did fine, and if even you didn't, there's no point in worrying too much about it.

ineedausername 4y ago

I've been grinding LC myself for the last half a year or so, it is fun but at the same time it sucks that we need to do this to pass interviews.

throwaway675309 4y ago
Just a counterpoint I've been working in the software engineering industry for 20 years and never once had to do any sort of grinding on leet code or anything else. I've found that the problem-solving whiteboarding that is common in the industry reflects my university comp sci education (binary tree, big O notation, etc). On the other hand, I also have zero interest in working for a FAANG so that might have something to do with it.
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  If you have good recall and a solid comp sci background you’ll pass the table stakes part of the interview no problem. Crazy thing is I get candidates all the time who can’t explain any data structure beyond a list or map. I was trying to set a bar so the OP could know what to improve on if that was the weak point. Is it right that a lot of companies want you to invert a binary tree on a whiteboard to get a 400-600k TC job? I dunno. But that is the state of things, to me it seems pretty easy to just study for a couple months and then remove that hurdle from the process.

morgante 4y ago

> Some people take it SUPER poorly, which ruins it for the rest of us. Yeah, unfortunately some candidates get very abusive if you tell them why you've chosen not to move forward (ex. one sent me numerous nasty emails for months after they were rejected). I still like to give feedback to everyone, because I'd rather live in a more honest and direct culture, but it's very understandable why most employers don't.

ZeroSolstice 4y ago
My thoughts are that companies don't receive any return in giving you feedback and it's easier to claim retaliation/fear/liability* as the reasoning for not doing it. I'm not sure why anyone thinks ghosting the person reduces their ability to retaliate. Maybe a company could ask a candidate to sign a NDA if they would like feedback otherwise let them know they may not hear back from you. I don't discount your situation above or pretend to know all the aspects, however objectively looking at it, blocking the persons email address would solve some of those issues. I assume most places do this. Noting that even if you didn't give them feedback, ghosted, or rejected them, they could have also sent numerous nasty emails anyway. I would like to see at some point some of the same professionalism, such as you show with your feedback to candidate's, from all companies that "evidently" have huge wishlists and want to hire professionals. * I haven't found any sites or papers that have tracked giving / not giving feedback to candidate's and the prospective results outside of anecdotal situations. * I did notice that some places such as Dragos do list feed back as part of the process. <https://www.dragos.com/blog/what-to-expect-when-interviewing-at-dragos/ https://www.dragos.com/blog/what-to-expect-when-interviewing...>

zach_garwood 4y ago

I suppose my weakness is that I don't apply to companies that have LeetCode interviews. But seriously, I honestly dont know. When I ask for feedback, even during the interview, I get, at best, a "I think you're doing fine" answer.

rsj_hn 4y ago
All the companies I worked with, the interview process is a bit like this: * there is a pool of interviewers for each set of subjects * hiring manager picks the subjects, and thus people are signed up for that pool get an interview slot. * interviewers talk to the candidate one on one (sometimes two on one if there is someone in training or it's a pair panel). They avoid talking to each other until everyone finished with their interviews, so as not to bias each interview. No "This candidate is great" -- never discuss the candidate until everyone is done. * interviewers fill out a form with feedback. The form contains info about what was asked and how the candidate did. * hiring manager gets all the forms and makes a decision based on what is on the form. No side channel "Hey, I said 'hire', but really it should be a 'no hire'". If the hiring manager has a question, there is a recorded feedback mechanism in the form where details can be solicited. * HR keeps all the feedback forms Asking if you were better or worse than the previous candidate is a no-no. They are not going to tell you, and you shouldn't ask. Because of that, you can't gauge whether you are the best candidate or not, which means you don't know if you got the job. You can ask if you did well, and they will give you a bland "You did fine", because they don't know if you will be hired or not. Also, most interviewers understand that it is a pain, so when they say "I appreciate you coming in", they usually mean it. Everyone's been on the other side, and we really do appreciate you coming in, and most of the time you really did do fine, and that's all we can say. It's rare to get a really bad interview. In those cases where the interview is awful, I try to say find something positive and then say "well, try not to worry too much". The goal is to be honest, non-committal, and supportive at the same time - because maybe the person might come back and interview later, or maybe they will tell their colleagues, and the last thing you want to do is to give them a bad experience or make them think you are giving them a hard time just because they couldn't answer some questions. Only the hiring manager knows, at the end of the process, what all the feedback is. Even if you think they did great, if several other people on the panel don't, it's probably a no-hire. The person who met you at the door, offered you coffee, and is shepherding people in and out of the room doesn't know, either. They will try to make you comfortable, make sure everything goes smoothly, and tell you that you did fine. Only in extreme cases will you get meaningful feedback during the interview. One time I asked one of our standard questions, and the candidate refused to answer. He started arguing with me, saying it wasn't a good question. It was pretty shocking. We don't just ask any question, the questions are reviewed by other people. If I give you a program and ask you to calculate the running time, don't refuse to do that because you don't like the program. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, just answer the question. After you answer the question, you can mention why this type of program is often unnecessary. So that was one situation where I gave feedback, along the lines of "It's not a good interview if you don't answer the question". Please don't have a chip on your shoulder. I know interviews can be irritating and nerve wracking, but let's just get through it with professionalism and a minimum of drama. Odds are good that you did fine, and if even you didn't, there's no point in worrying too much about it.