4 ms·

from personal experience i can say: after i started working out extensively, often for 10+ hours a week, i did notice that i just had a lot less time and energy

by stefs 4y ago

from personal experience i can say: after i started working out extensively, often for 10+ hours a week, i did notice that i just had a lot less time and energy left for intellectual endeavours (which consisted of mostly reading and programming exercise projects). not only was the time spent in the gym "lost" (intellectually), but afterwards (i mostly trained in the evening) i was just too tired and exhausted for longer periods of intense concentration. that said, i began spending a lot of time reading about exercising instead, which is surprisingly intellectually stimulating. there are a bunch of high level powerlifters, bodybuilders and weightlifters who do, for example, scientific paper reviews and criticism. i learned a lot about second-guessing findings there. road cycling is probably on of the most data driven sports out there (i kinda quit strength sports during covid and started cycling, which is probably even more time consuming). there are intellectually aspects to - and surrounding - most sports to a degree, but i doubt intelligence is the decicive factor even in comparably tactical athletic disciplines (team sports).

baxtr 4y ago
What’s the one book or paper you would recommend?
- stefs 4y ago
  sorry, i'm not sure what you mean. i can't recommend any books or papers. on the one hand i'm not a scientist myself, on the other hand i have no idea what you're interested in or what is relevant for you. but if i'd have to recommend ONE book, i'd say https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/big-blue-book-of-bicycle-repair-4th-edition-bbb-4 https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/big-blue-book-of-bicy... - because you can't exercise at all on your bike if it's broken for random study reviews: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight/ , for nutrition and supplements: https://examine.com/ https://examine.com/ , for cycling, e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/c/DylanJohnsonCycling https://www.youtube.com/c/DylanJohnsonCycling
  - baxtr 4y ago
    Thanks! I was referring to what you said about reading. >i began spending a lot of time reading about exercising instead
    - stefs 4y ago
      oh, usually what came up on https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/ https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/ if there's something interesting going on in the field of (strength) training science, it'll be linked and discussed there. tbh., the guys there seem to adhere to the scientific method a lot more than the software developers i know.
boringg 4y ago
The thing about cycling which is nice is it allows for your brain to decompress and wander into deep thought (assuming a solo ride) while tour body is physically working. Whereas mountain biking is more action and coordinated and quite fun but doesnt get me into a deep state if mind. Powerlifting builds muscle and does provide benefits (structural integrity especially for the end years of my life) but i don't feel rejuvenated more just tired after working out. I find that im not as sharp during the hour or two after from tiredness (for an intense workout). To be fair both cycling and mountain biking im totally cooked for something equivalently intense.
- rayrey 4y ago
  Swimming as well is good for a deeper state of thoughtfulness. Just you and the water, watching the lane marker, approach the T, make the turn, repeat
  - usrusr 4y ago
    But not before you have reached a rather high level of technique. Before that, it feels like a sustained fight against drowning that fills your entire attention like few other things do. I'd say the threshold to mentally let go is lower in almost every other sport. That state of a background task that keeps the kind from dozing off, it's leaving plenty of attention to the mind wandering? I rarely hear that mentioned by swimmers, the state of mind trope frequently occurring is "counting tiles", which rather sounds like as if even those with perfect technique and routine don't disconnect mind from physical activity all that much.
    - boringg 4y ago
      That must be why i dont love swimming. Ive never made it to that relaxed autopilot mode.
- stefs 4y ago
  for me it's complicated. sometimes i do get into those deep thoughts on long solo rides, but i found that i couldn't really concentrate on complicated issues enough without neglecting my concentration on the road. i did have a couple of good ideas from time to time, but it wasn't a regular experience and highly dependend on the type of riding. moreover, i run the risk of forgetting about the good ideas if the ride goes on for several more hours and i fall into other deep thought mind traps. if i do structured training i try to stay concentrated on the task at hand, i.e. pedalling technique, breathing, recovery (heart rate), keeping watts constant, controlling cadence and so on. i do long virtual endurance rides with the ERG on but tend to watch entertaining movies. i don't seem to get into deep though states much during weightlifting, as the lifts require me to be concentrated and fully focussed and the pauses are too short to get lost on the one hand and require active recovery on the other. the big difference here is that most people who want to use training time for intellectual improvement just listen to podcasts, but that's not really an option for me as i'm hearing impaired and barely understand anything.
whydoyoucare 4y ago
The conventional wisdom of exercising alternate days, 20 minutes per day, etc. may lead to many people over-training themselves. In my experience, the "exercise-life" balance (similar to work-life balance) has to be had for benefits to accumulate and our ability to continue it. That said, I lift twice a week for a total of about 4 to 4.5 hours, and that strikes an optimum balance for my age, physiology and everything else. I tried many other forms and failed to find that exercise-life balance. Additionally a lot of conventional wisdom in exercise science borders on "voodoo", and some are challenging it [1]. [1] Search for Mark Rippetoe's articles on Starting Strength. See, for instance, https://startingstrength.com/article/why-you-should-not-be-running https://startingstrength.com/article/why-you-should-not-be-r... (the name is a bit misleading).
- ehnto 4y ago
  It's definitely about finding your personal balance of effort versus capacity to recover, although do make sure to read up on conventional wisdom and use that to guide you first. It takes a while to know what you're actually looking for. To add an anecdote, my balance changes depending on my focus at the time. If I'm on a strength training arc, it's 3 days a week at 1-2hrs a session. If I've shifted focus to functional fitness I can train 3-4 times a week at ~40minutes a session, as it just doesn't take as long to do the work, and doesn't take as long to recover from that work. Food and sleep are usually the limiting factor, I just can't recover fast enough and that is what over training really is, it's training over your capacity to recover.
- stefs 4y ago
  there's a lot of bro science regarding overtraining. almost all of the time it's actually undersleeping and undereating, i.e. recovery is the limiting factor. back then i was single, didn't work full time and also had flexible work time, so sleeping 8-10 hours a night and eating huge heaps of food every day was the norm. endurance sports are a little different in some aspects, mostly body weight management. i'm not the biggest fan of rippetoe. e.g. the article you linked is at least partially bullshit for high(er) level athletes (i only skimmed it though). it's important to keep the audience in mind though; it may be valuable advice for _some_.

by stefs 4y ago

baxtr 4y ago

What’s the one book or paper you would recommend?

stefs 4y ago
sorry, i'm not sure what you mean. i can't recommend any books or papers. on the one hand i'm not a scientist myself, on the other hand i have no idea what you're interested in or what is relevant for you. but if i'd have to recommend ONE book, i'd say https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/big-blue-book-of-bicycle-repair-4th-edition-bbb-4 https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/big-blue-book-of-bicy... - because you can't exercise at all on your bike if it's broken for random study reviews: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight/ , for nutrition and supplements: https://examine.com/ https://examine.com/ , for cycling, e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/c/DylanJohnsonCycling https://www.youtube.com/c/DylanJohnsonCycling
- baxtr 4y ago
  Thanks! I was referring to what you said about reading. >i began spending a lot of time reading about exercising instead
  - stefs 4y ago
    oh, usually what came up on https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/ https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/ if there's something interesting going on in the field of (strength) training science, it'll be linked and discussed there. tbh., the guys there seem to adhere to the scientific method a lot more than the software developers i know.

boringg 4y ago

The thing about cycling which is nice is it allows for your brain to decompress and wander into deep thought (assuming a solo ride) while tour body is physically working. Whereas mountain biking is more action and coordinated and quite fun but doesnt get me into a deep state if mind. Powerlifting builds muscle and does provide benefits (structural integrity especially for the end years of my life) but i don't feel rejuvenated more just tired after working out. I find that im not as sharp during the hour or two after from tiredness (for an intense workout). To be fair both cycling and mountain biking im totally cooked for something equivalently intense.

rayrey 4y ago
Swimming as well is good for a deeper state of thoughtfulness. Just you and the water, watching the lane marker, approach the T, make the turn, repeat
- usrusr 4y ago
  But not before you have reached a rather high level of technique. Before that, it feels like a sustained fight against drowning that fills your entire attention like few other things do. I'd say the threshold to mentally let go is lower in almost every other sport. That state of a background task that keeps the kind from dozing off, it's leaving plenty of attention to the mind wandering? I rarely hear that mentioned by swimmers, the state of mind trope frequently occurring is "counting tiles", which rather sounds like as if even those with perfect technique and routine don't disconnect mind from physical activity all that much.
  - boringg 4y ago
    That must be why i dont love swimming. Ive never made it to that relaxed autopilot mode.
stefs 4y ago
for me it's complicated. sometimes i do get into those deep thoughts on long solo rides, but i found that i couldn't really concentrate on complicated issues enough without neglecting my concentration on the road. i did have a couple of good ideas from time to time, but it wasn't a regular experience and highly dependend on the type of riding. moreover, i run the risk of forgetting about the good ideas if the ride goes on for several more hours and i fall into other deep thought mind traps. if i do structured training i try to stay concentrated on the task at hand, i.e. pedalling technique, breathing, recovery (heart rate), keeping watts constant, controlling cadence and so on. i do long virtual endurance rides with the ERG on but tend to watch entertaining movies. i don't seem to get into deep though states much during weightlifting, as the lifts require me to be concentrated and fully focussed and the pauses are too short to get lost on the one hand and require active recovery on the other. the big difference here is that most people who want to use training time for intellectual improvement just listen to podcasts, but that's not really an option for me as i'm hearing impaired and barely understand anything.

whydoyoucare 4y ago

The conventional wisdom of exercising alternate days, 20 minutes per day, etc. may lead to many people over-training themselves. In my experience, the "exercise-life" balance (similar to work-life balance) has to be had for benefits to accumulate and our ability to continue it. That said, I lift twice a week for a total of about 4 to 4.5 hours, and that strikes an optimum balance for my age, physiology and everything else. I tried many other forms and failed to find that exercise-life balance. Additionally a lot of conventional wisdom in exercise science borders on "voodoo", and some are challenging it [1]. [1] Search for Mark Rippetoe's articles on Starting Strength. See, for instance, https://startingstrength.com/article/why-you-should-not-be-running https://startingstrength.com/article/why-you-should-not-be-r... (the name is a bit misleading).

ehnto 4y ago
It's definitely about finding your personal balance of effort versus capacity to recover, although do make sure to read up on conventional wisdom and use that to guide you first. It takes a while to know what you're actually looking for. To add an anecdote, my balance changes depending on my focus at the time. If I'm on a strength training arc, it's 3 days a week at 1-2hrs a session. If I've shifted focus to functional fitness I can train 3-4 times a week at ~40minutes a session, as it just doesn't take as long to do the work, and doesn't take as long to recover from that work. Food and sleep are usually the limiting factor, I just can't recover fast enough and that is what over training really is, it's training over your capacity to recover.
stefs 4y ago
there's a lot of bro science regarding overtraining. almost all of the time it's actually undersleeping and undereating, i.e. recovery is the limiting factor. back then i was single, didn't work full time and also had flexible work time, so sleeping 8-10 hours a night and eating huge heaps of food every day was the norm. endurance sports are a little different in some aspects, mostly body weight management. i'm not the biggest fan of rippetoe. e.g. the article you linked is at least partially bullshit for high(er) level athletes (i only skimmed it though). it's important to keep the audience in mind though; it may be valuable advice for _some_.