5 ms·

"Ur-Lisp" – what is the exact definition of this?

dustingetz 4y ago
Possibly reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur, the first prehistoric city, in ancient Mesopotamia
- froh 4y ago
  that's a popular urban myth, alas the origin is some predecessor language to German. https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur- https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-
  - HerrMonnezza 4y ago
    So Ur- comes from Urdeutsch? :-)
    - Oreb 4y ago
      You are joking, but the Proto-Germanic language (the ancestor of all current Germanic languages (English, German, Dutch, Icelandic, Faroese, etc. (sorry for the nested parens, but this is a Lisp thread))) is actually called “urgermansk” in Scandinavia.
- yesenadam 4y ago
  Apparently not: From Middle High German ur-, from Old High German ur-, ir- (“thoroughly”), from Proto-Germanic *uz- (“out”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-#German https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-#German
deleted 4y ago
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throwaway294566 4y ago
"Ur" is a German prefix meaning "old", "original", "predecessor". So Ur-Lisp would be the old original Lisp that is predecessor to all other Lisps. Other examples include Urrind (Rind == Bovine) which would be the predecessor of all species of bovine. Urzeit (Zeit == time), which is a generic very ancient time period before all humans (where the Urrind or even the dinosaurs might have lived). Ur-Computer might be one of the first computers, like the original Zuse or ENIAC.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  Bonus example: Urgroßvater -> great-grandfather. You can add as many Ur-s as you wish.
- scotteric 4y ago
  My favorite example Ursuppe == primordial soup.
  - Tomte 4y ago
    Also a fantastic indie boardgame - also available in English.
- kwk1 4y ago
  Another good example: the real-but-extinct animal aurochs = "ur-ox."
- xhevahir 4y ago
  In addition to predecessor it could also mean "archetypal." Goethe believed he had seen the Urpflanze, or plant-archetype, while traveling in Italy.
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  Uradel -- people whose families have been noble for a very long time. Briefadel -- people whose families were ennobled in modern times. Edit: "modern times" in this context is "since the 14th century".
gattilorenz 4y ago
Ur-Lisp means “original” Lisp, in the sense of “origin”. “ur-“ is sometimes used as a prefix (Ur-Fascism of Umberto Eco comes to mind). In this case I guess it refers to the first Lisp, or maybe just the first prototypical Lisp, the founding father of all modern Lisps, I haven’t read the article yet.
quelltext 4y ago
It means proto-Lisp. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur- https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur- Now, to your original question. No idea which of the early Lisps qualify exactly as such, or until when.

Possibly reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur, the first prehistoric city, in ancient Mesopotamia

froh 4y ago
that's a popular urban myth, alas the origin is some predecessor language to German. https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur- https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-
- HerrMonnezza 4y ago
  So Ur- comes from Urdeutsch? :-)
  - Oreb 4y ago
    You are joking, but the Proto-Germanic language (the ancestor of all current Germanic languages (English, German, Dutch, Icelandic, Faroese, etc. (sorry for the nested parens, but this is a Lisp thread))) is actually called “urgermansk” in Scandinavia.
yesenadam 4y ago
Apparently not: From Middle High German ur-, from Old High German ur-, ir- (“thoroughly”), from Proto-Germanic *uz- (“out”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-#German https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-#German

deleted 4y ago

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throwaway294566 4y ago

"Ur" is a German prefix meaning "old", "original", "predecessor". So Ur-Lisp would be the old original Lisp that is predecessor to all other Lisps. Other examples include Urrind (Rind == Bovine) which would be the predecessor of all species of bovine. Urzeit (Zeit == time), which is a generic very ancient time period before all humans (where the Urrind or even the dinosaurs might have lived). Ur-Computer might be one of the first computers, like the original Zuse or ENIAC.

solarkraft 4y ago
Bonus example: Urgroßvater -> great-grandfather. You can add as many Ur-s as you wish.
scotteric 4y ago
My favorite example Ursuppe == primordial soup.
- Tomte 4y ago
  Also a fantastic indie boardgame - also available in English.
kwk1 4y ago
Another good example: the real-but-extinct animal aurochs = "ur-ox."
xhevahir 4y ago
In addition to predecessor it could also mean "archetypal." Goethe believed he had seen the Urpflanze, or plant-archetype, while traveling in Italy.
Turing_Machine 4y ago
Uradel -- people whose families have been noble for a very long time. Briefadel -- people whose families were ennobled in modern times. Edit: "modern times" in this context is "since the 14th century".

gattilorenz 4y ago

Ur-Lisp means “original” Lisp, in the sense of “origin”. “ur-“ is sometimes used as a prefix (Ur-Fascism of Umberto Eco comes to mind). In this case I guess it refers to the first Lisp, or maybe just the first prototypical Lisp, the founding father of all modern Lisps, I haven’t read the article yet.

quelltext 4y ago

It means proto-Lisp. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur- https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur- Now, to your original question. No idea which of the early Lisps qualify exactly as such, or until when.