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Surely it's not a coincidence that on the day FTX announces bankruptcy, this gigantic hack occurs? Some folks in this thread are speculating this might've been

Surely it's not a coincidence that on the day FTX announces bankruptcy, this gigantic hack occurs? Some folks in this thread are speculating this might've been an inside job. I suspect, it's likelier that hackers had been aware of a vulnerability for some time, had a plan to drain these funds, but decided to hasten the timeline on the basis of the news FTX was going under.

stephc_int13 4y ago
From a technical standpoint, how difficult it is to hack your own company? What would you do, if you spent years building a Crypto/Ponzi scam and that you were the first to know that it was going to crumble? Let it go and face the consequences? Or try to save a few bucks knowing that you don't have much more to lose if it fails?
- michaericalribo 4y ago
  There’s as much evidence for your theory as there is for GP’s
  - stephc_int13 4y ago
    Sure. But what would you do, in this context?
    - spydum 4y ago
      if the coins are stolen or lost in some way, they cant be liquidated and thus shouldnt devalue the coin right? could reducing the availability actually be a way of preserving the market?
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    I mean, the "inside job" theory seems to have more evidence, because as was pointed out hackers don't normally wait months to execute their attacks. And are more likely to use automation.
- lordnacho 4y ago
  > From a technical standpoint, how difficult it is to hack your own company? It would be easy. If you're the founder might have special access to the keys, in fact you probably need to for emergency purposes. Whether that's a "hack" I don't know, it seems to just be theft. The real question is what do you do with the fact that you have the keys? If you are tempted to nick all the money, you might end up in a bad place.
  - stephc_int13 4y ago
    What if you already are in a bad place?
    - lordnacho 4y ago
      If you use non-privacy chains, which are the common ones, you can get found out as soon as you try to do anything meaningful with it. Eg you move to some country, you want to buy a place, you find a seller willing to take crypto, ding-ding-ding, authorities will ask them where they got the coins from and there you are in your pool.
      - stephc_int13 4y ago
        So, what you're saying is that some hackers are siphoning all the "funds" for no reason at all? Or maybe, if they are hackers they can use/launder those in some way or another, but if this is SBF behind a mask then he can't? I am far from an expert about money laundering techniques, but I find it hard to believe that it is impossible to launder, given the context.
        lordnacho 4y ago
        There's probably something these guys know that ordinary HN people don't know about how to extract the money. Perhaps there's a jurisdiction where it's made a lot easier.
        LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
pclmulqdq 4y ago
A lot of the crypto "mega-hacks" we have seen in the past have involved insiders: either insiders getting phished or insiders doing the theft themselves. 7-8 digit hacks are often legitimate hacking, but suspiciously-timed 9 digit hacks have been inside jobs in the past. I'm giving more than even odds to the theory that a top executive of FTX wanted a retirement fund. Let's see if one of them disappears.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> I suspect, it's likelier that hackers had been aware of a vulnerability for some time, had a plan to drain these funds, but decided to hasten the timeline on the basis of the news FTX was going under. This make no sense to me. Thieves in the crypto currency world seize the opportunities before other thieves do: what more do "hackers" need than 600m? 700m? 900m? Why let a vulnerability unexploited, risking someone else to exploit it before you? Because 600m wouldn't be enough? (and before the price crash it was probably worth way more than 600m). I don't buy it. Insider job 100%. Especially seen that it's a know fact it was run by scammers. It's not as if we were talking about honest people playing it fair. We're talking about a scam. A more than shady company, ran by scammers. I call insider job unless proven otherwise.
- nooby12345 4y ago
- JamesianP 4y ago
  They might've been in the process of transferring crypto silently for months and only now had to rush overtly enough to be spotted.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
Drain the funds before the creditors get to them.

stephc_int13 4y ago

From a technical standpoint, how difficult it is to hack your own company? What would you do, if you spent years building a Crypto/Ponzi scam and that you were the first to know that it was going to crumble? Let it go and face the consequences? Or try to save a few bucks knowing that you don't have much more to lose if it fails?

michaericalribo 4y ago
There’s as much evidence for your theory as there is for GP’s
- stephc_int13 4y ago
  Sure. But what would you do, in this context?
  - spydum 4y ago
    if the coins are stolen or lost in some way, they cant be liquidated and thus shouldnt devalue the coin right? could reducing the availability actually be a way of preserving the market?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  I mean, the "inside job" theory seems to have more evidence, because as was pointed out hackers don't normally wait months to execute their attacks. And are more likely to use automation.
lordnacho 4y ago
> From a technical standpoint, how difficult it is to hack your own company? It would be easy. If you're the founder might have special access to the keys, in fact you probably need to for emergency purposes. Whether that's a "hack" I don't know, it seems to just be theft. The real question is what do you do with the fact that you have the keys? If you are tempted to nick all the money, you might end up in a bad place.
- stephc_int13 4y ago
  What if you already are in a bad place?
  - lordnacho 4y ago
    If you use non-privacy chains, which are the common ones, you can get found out as soon as you try to do anything meaningful with it. Eg you move to some country, you want to buy a place, you find a seller willing to take crypto, ding-ding-ding, authorities will ask them where they got the coins from and there you are in your pool.
    - stephc_int13 4y ago
      So, what you're saying is that some hackers are siphoning all the "funds" for no reason at all? Or maybe, if they are hackers they can use/launder those in some way or another, but if this is SBF behind a mask then he can't? I am far from an expert about money laundering techniques, but I find it hard to believe that it is impossible to launder, given the context.
      - lordnacho 4y ago
        There's probably something these guys know that ordinary HN people don't know about how to extract the money. Perhaps there's a jurisdiction where it's made a lot easier.
        LawTalkingGuy 4y ago

pclmulqdq 4y ago

A lot of the crypto "mega-hacks" we have seen in the past have involved insiders: either insiders getting phished or insiders doing the theft themselves. 7-8 digit hacks are often legitimate hacking, but suspiciously-timed 9 digit hacks have been inside jobs in the past. I'm giving more than even odds to the theory that a top executive of FTX wanted a retirement fund. Let's see if one of them disappears.

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> I suspect, it's likelier that hackers had been aware of a vulnerability for some time, had a plan to drain these funds, but decided to hasten the timeline on the basis of the news FTX was going under. This make no sense to me. Thieves in the crypto currency world seize the opportunities before other thieves do: what more do "hackers" need than 600m? 700m? 900m? Why let a vulnerability unexploited, risking someone else to exploit it before you? Because 600m wouldn't be enough? (and before the price crash it was probably worth way more than 600m). I don't buy it. Insider job 100%. Especially seen that it's a know fact it was run by scammers. It's not as if we were talking about honest people playing it fair. We're talking about a scam. A more than shady company, ran by scammers. I call insider job unless proven otherwise.

nooby12345 4y ago
JamesianP 4y ago
They might've been in the process of transferring crypto silently for months and only now had to rush overtly enough to be spotted.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

BeFlatXIII 4y ago

Drain the funds before the creditors get to them.