7 ms·

But their CDN providers (CloudFlare, Amazon and Fastly) aren’t. That’s the claim made in the article, that using American owned CDNs makes your business illegal

by yashap 4y ago

But their CDN providers (CloudFlare, Amazon and Fastly) aren’t. That’s the claim made in the article, that using American owned CDNs makes your business illegal in Europe, even if no data processing or storage happens outside Europe. I find this hard to believe …

lmkg 4y ago
The CLOUD Act gives US law enforcement access to the data, even if it's only stored in Europe. That's the problem, and the EU court is doing no more than recognizing that for the problem that it is.
- shafyy 4y ago
  I think it's good that the EU is forcing the US to get their privacy laws in order.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Forcing? More like strongly suggesting, but that feels too strong as well. "Hey Yanks! Would you mind getting your shite together? K? Thanks!" Which the US is quite like Fark Off, we do what we want! You're not the king of me!
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Tell that to the owner of the business.
  - Silverback_VII 4y ago
    who for goodness sake needs privacy to buy some coffee online? This is just bullshit and slows down innovation. Moreover It is a big hassle just like these cookie consent banners. Nothing shows better that European leaders are powerless than this sort of nitpicking over things of little importance.
    - __m 4y ago
      Data privacy IS an innovation.
  - mbreese 4y ago
    I don't think the EU will force the US to do anything w.r.t. privacy. Instead, we'll see EU based CDNs start to take over customers from US CDNs. Less "get your act together", more "we'd rather do this ourselves...".
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      Yeah, see for instance this discussion : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27393854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27393854
    - mafuy 4y ago
      That is true, tho I don't think it will happen in practice. But regardless: one has to admit that it is not different from how the current embargos affect Russian people. Punish the citizens so they (try to) put pressure on the government to act better.
  - nopenopenopeno 4y ago
    The EU does not force the US to do anything.
  - bcrosby95 4y ago
    Wait, do you think law enforcement agencies in Europe can't force companies to reveal ip addresses and/or other customer information?
    - marcosdumay 4y ago
      They can do whatever the local laws allow. If the local laws forbid it, then they can't.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        The idea that this type of information would be shielded from a legal warrant (or local equivalent) is silly.
      - JasonFruit 4y ago
        I think you and I have different definitions of "can't".
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      This is perhaps more about intelligence agencies : (we would NOT be in this situation if Patriot Act => Snowden scandal had not happened) https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-europes-intelligence-services-aim-avoid-eus-highest-court-and-what-it-means-united-states https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-europes-intelligence-service... Still, I think you can see how a lot of people might feel more comfortable being spied upon by "their own" intelligence agencies, than foreign ones ? (Since, in democratic countries, these agencies are at least theoretically under the control of governments, which are in theory representative of citizens.) And while the USA (unlike, say, Russia or China), is treated as an EU ally, their unrivaled power combined with their "world police" actions end up chafing even in the EU...
shafyy 4y ago
It is illegal according to many recent court verdicts, there are some examples with Google Fonts, too. Now, of course in practice you won't be sued if you only run a small business (or you might, if you get unlucky like this guy in the article).
- kuschku 4y ago
  There are some lawyers in Germany that have made a business out of suing every tiny website that violates the GDPR by using any US service at all. So no, don't expect your personal website from being exempt.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  This guy did not get sued. Someone reported him to the relevant authority which gave him notice and time to correct the issue - no court of law was involved. There are lawyers that threaten to sue you in court, treating this as a business model bordering on extortion, but that’s not the case here.

by yashap 4y ago

lmkg 4y ago

The CLOUD Act gives US law enforcement access to the data, even if it's only stored in Europe. That's the problem, and the EU court is doing no more than recognizing that for the problem that it is.

shafyy 4y ago
I think it's good that the EU is forcing the US to get their privacy laws in order.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Forcing? More like strongly suggesting, but that feels too strong as well. "Hey Yanks! Would you mind getting your shite together? K? Thanks!" Which the US is quite like Fark Off, we do what we want! You're not the king of me!
- scarface74 4y ago
  Tell that to the owner of the business.
- Silverback_VII 4y ago
  who for goodness sake needs privacy to buy some coffee online? This is just bullshit and slows down innovation. Moreover It is a big hassle just like these cookie consent banners. Nothing shows better that European leaders are powerless than this sort of nitpicking over things of little importance.
  - __m 4y ago
    Data privacy IS an innovation.
- mbreese 4y ago
  I don't think the EU will force the US to do anything w.r.t. privacy. Instead, we'll see EU based CDNs start to take over customers from US CDNs. Less "get your act together", more "we'd rather do this ourselves...".
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Yeah, see for instance this discussion : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27393854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27393854
  - mafuy 4y ago
    That is true, tho I don't think it will happen in practice. But regardless: one has to admit that it is not different from how the current embargos affect Russian people. Punish the citizens so they (try to) put pressure on the government to act better.
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago
  The EU does not force the US to do anything.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  Wait, do you think law enforcement agencies in Europe can't force companies to reveal ip addresses and/or other customer information?
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    They can do whatever the local laws allow. If the local laws forbid it, then they can't.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      The idea that this type of information would be shielded from a legal warrant (or local equivalent) is silly.
    - JasonFruit 4y ago
      I think you and I have different definitions of "can't".
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    This is perhaps more about intelligence agencies : (we would NOT be in this situation if Patriot Act => Snowden scandal had not happened) https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-europes-intelligence-services-aim-avoid-eus-highest-court-and-what-it-means-united-states https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-europes-intelligence-service... Still, I think you can see how a lot of people might feel more comfortable being spied upon by "their own" intelligence agencies, than foreign ones ? (Since, in democratic countries, these agencies are at least theoretically under the control of governments, which are in theory representative of citizens.) And while the USA (unlike, say, Russia or China), is treated as an EU ally, their unrivaled power combined with their "world police" actions end up chafing even in the EU...

shafyy 4y ago

It is illegal according to many recent court verdicts, there are some examples with Google Fonts, too. Now, of course in practice you won't be sued if you only run a small business (or you might, if you get unlucky like this guy in the article).

kuschku 4y ago
There are some lawyers in Germany that have made a business out of suing every tiny website that violates the GDPR by using any US service at all. So no, don't expect your personal website from being exempt.
Xylakant 4y ago
This guy did not get sued. Someone reported him to the relevant authority which gave him notice and time to correct the issue - no court of law was involved. There are lawyers that threaten to sue you in court, treating this as a business model bordering on extortion, but that’s not the case here.