4 ms·

> Everybody just wants wants wants and act like children when they don't get. Wow, what an immature attitude YOU have. Of course everyone "wants wants wants".

> Everybody just wants wants wants and act like children when they don't get. Wow, what an immature attitude YOU have. Of course everyone "wants wants wants". You're displaying that attitude right now. You're feeling hurt about not getting more, because you want more. That's normal. That's OK. If someone offered to bump my salary to a million pounds for no reason, of course I'd take it. You should probably try asking for a pay rise. Pay, in tech, has everything to do with your negotiation power, and almost nothing to do with how good you are at your job. Your job is to maximise your salary. For the person paying the salary (your boss), their job is to minimise it. They're not doing it because they despise you, think less of you, or want to exact petty revenge on you. they do it because it's their job to keep costs down. Just like you would try to minimise the cost of servers, or software licenses. The sooner people understand this, the better for everyone. Now go and advocate for yourself. If you really feel under-paid, ask for a raise. Threaten to walk (be sure you can actually follow up on that). If your contribution to the company is deemed to be worth the money, you'll get it.

lowercased 4y ago
> If your contribution to the company is deemed to be worth the money, you'll get it. I've rarely seen individual contributions able to be evaluated 'fairly' at any scale. Your skills may be top notch, but you were focused on a project that was killed after 10 months because.... budget cuts? Bad management? Your contribution to the company in that case can be seen as a net negative, but it's largely out of your control. The OP should just leave and find a better gig. That might be slightly harder over the next year, and yeah, it sucks to do that, but it's how you get big raises. The people coming in at 140k are demonstrating that (in the above example). Trying too much 'negotiate for a raise' tips your hand that you're unhappy, and you will be treated differently if you make anything more than a casual ask (even then...).
- valdiorn 4y ago
  > I've rarely seen individual contributions able to be evaluated 'fairly' at any scale. Your skills may be top notch, but you were focused on a project that was killed after 10 months because.... budget cuts? Bad management? Your contribution to the company in that case can be seen as a net negative, but it's largely out of your control. this is absolutely true. But everyone needs to decide for themselves if they want to work for a Google-esque company that does shit like that, or something smaller where you can have a material impact and your absence will be noticed and missed instantly. When you join a company, you are making an informed bet. You're betting that you can find successful projects to work on within the company, that the budget won't be slashed, that your manager isn't a sociopath who only promotes his drinking buddies, that half the company won't get fired within 6 months, that it won't go bankrupt. You won't always get it right, sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand, in which case; try again, don't sit tight for another 5 years hoping things will change; do something about it. Move projects and try again. Or find another job.
- 0xRusty 4y ago
  Trouble is I LOVE my job and the company I'm in. I know our processes like the back of my hand (I designed half of them) and feel very valued and enjoy it all. I don't want to leave just to get money. I just also dont see why people coming in to "junior" roles are paid $50k more than I was on at that level of experience just a few years ago (I understand inflation, this is something else). It's nuts.
  - lowercased 4y ago
    I totally get it. I understand you love the job. It doesn't love you. It's a one-way relationship. Keep that in mind. The $ amounts are a bit inflation, and partially just because there's just a huge amount of money circulating around. Many depts and companies measure themselves on headcount, so hiring more people - even at inflated rates - gives them something measurable.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    “I feel like my company values me. But they are not paying me what I’m worth” If that suns up your sentiment, do you not see a problem with that?
kcplate 4y ago
I am pretty sure you missed the entire point of their comment. The commenter was not speaking about their own current comp, but the current comp vs quality vs entitlement within their direct reports. It’s hard to look at low quality employees making large salaries as a leader and not be dismayed, disappointed, and discouraged when the entitlement and whining happens. A lot of employees act like children and that is not ok or justified. That is what is immature, not pointing out that people commanding six figure salaries should maybe act like adults and actually provide six figures of value for their compensation. After a couple of decades managing developers and engineers I specifically left management and now refuse to take on any role that requires direct reports just because the entitlement attitude in tech is so bad nowadays. “Management” gets a bad rap here on HN, but to me, they are real hero’s and doing a shit job.
- valdiorn 4y ago
  If your staff is acting like spoiled bratty children, you talk to them. If they don't adjust, you fire them. If you can't fire them because they're hard to replace, guess what; they have more value than you attributed to them, and were probably RIGHT to complain and insist on better pay. Just like your employer tries to extract maximum value for minimum pay out of you, so should you extract maximum pay for minimum investment out of your employer. That's only fair.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    The problem isn’t firing them, firing people is actually pretty easy—-it’s having to manage them up to that point where you determine that termination is the appropriate solution. Whether or not they have value or hard to replace doesn’t excuse them from having the responsibility of civil behavior. Where is being valuable an appropriate excuse for being an asshole acceptable anywhere in society?
    - TchoBeer 4y ago
      Basically everywhere, unfortunately.
- 4y ago

lowercased 4y ago

> If your contribution to the company is deemed to be worth the money, you'll get it. I've rarely seen individual contributions able to be evaluated 'fairly' at any scale. Your skills may be top notch, but you were focused on a project that was killed after 10 months because.... budget cuts? Bad management? Your contribution to the company in that case can be seen as a net negative, but it's largely out of your control. The OP should just leave and find a better gig. That might be slightly harder over the next year, and yeah, it sucks to do that, but it's how you get big raises. The people coming in at 140k are demonstrating that (in the above example). Trying too much 'negotiate for a raise' tips your hand that you're unhappy, and you will be treated differently if you make anything more than a casual ask (even then...).

valdiorn 4y ago
> I've rarely seen individual contributions able to be evaluated 'fairly' at any scale. Your skills may be top notch, but you were focused on a project that was killed after 10 months because.... budget cuts? Bad management? Your contribution to the company in that case can be seen as a net negative, but it's largely out of your control. this is absolutely true. But everyone needs to decide for themselves if they want to work for a Google-esque company that does shit like that, or something smaller where you can have a material impact and your absence will be noticed and missed instantly. When you join a company, you are making an informed bet. You're betting that you can find successful projects to work on within the company, that the budget won't be slashed, that your manager isn't a sociopath who only promotes his drinking buddies, that half the company won't get fired within 6 months, that it won't go bankrupt. You won't always get it right, sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand, in which case; try again, don't sit tight for another 5 years hoping things will change; do something about it. Move projects and try again. Or find another job.
0xRusty 4y ago
Trouble is I LOVE my job and the company I'm in. I know our processes like the back of my hand (I designed half of them) and feel very valued and enjoy it all. I don't want to leave just to get money. I just also dont see why people coming in to "junior" roles are paid $50k more than I was on at that level of experience just a few years ago (I understand inflation, this is something else). It's nuts.
- lowercased 4y ago
  I totally get it. I understand you love the job. It doesn't love you. It's a one-way relationship. Keep that in mind. The $ amounts are a bit inflation, and partially just because there's just a huge amount of money circulating around. Many depts and companies measure themselves on headcount, so hiring more people - even at inflated rates - gives them something measurable.
- scarface74 4y ago
  “I feel like my company values me. But they are not paying me what I’m worth” If that suns up your sentiment, do you not see a problem with that?

kcplate 4y ago

I am pretty sure you missed the entire point of their comment. The commenter was not speaking about their own current comp, but the current comp vs quality vs entitlement within their direct reports. It’s hard to look at low quality employees making large salaries as a leader and not be dismayed, disappointed, and discouraged when the entitlement and whining happens. A lot of employees act like children and that is not ok or justified. That is what is immature, not pointing out that people commanding six figure salaries should maybe act like adults and actually provide six figures of value for their compensation. After a couple of decades managing developers and engineers I specifically left management and now refuse to take on any role that requires direct reports just because the entitlement attitude in tech is so bad nowadays. “Management” gets a bad rap here on HN, but to me, they are real hero’s and doing a shit job.

valdiorn 4y ago
If your staff is acting like spoiled bratty children, you talk to them. If they don't adjust, you fire them. If you can't fire them because they're hard to replace, guess what; they have more value than you attributed to them, and were probably RIGHT to complain and insist on better pay. Just like your employer tries to extract maximum value for minimum pay out of you, so should you extract maximum pay for minimum investment out of your employer. That's only fair.
- kcplate 4y ago
  The problem isn’t firing them, firing people is actually pretty easy—-it’s having to manage them up to that point where you determine that termination is the appropriate solution. Whether or not they have value or hard to replace doesn’t excuse them from having the responsibility of civil behavior. Where is being valuable an appropriate excuse for being an asshole acceptable anywhere in society?
  - TchoBeer 4y ago
    Basically everywhere, unfortunately.
4y ago