3 ms·

I think that the NYT article has the much better lede from the emails in it: Due to resignations by 3 top execs yesterday, engineers are now likely to have to

I think that the NYT article has the much better lede from the emails in it: Due to resignations by 3 top execs yesterday, engineers are now likely to have to make sure that their code is compliant with the FTC w.r.t. the 2011 judgement against Twitter. As in, there is a good chance that individual SWEs at Twitter are going to be legally culpable for violations. Even if I am totally misreading that quick lede about dense legalese (likely), it still says that Twitter currently has no reasonable way to stay in the FTC's good graces for the foreseeable future. Y'all, don't try to appease a billionaire and get yourself in legal trouble. Don't even try to chance it. Walk away.

fermentation 4y ago
How does that work? If a SWE isn't aware of the gazillion laws surrounding their code, why isn't the company liable when X of those laws are inevitably violated? What about the people who review the code? Or the people who wrote the systems that push the code?
- badwolf 4y ago
  It seems Musk's new legal "department" is wanting developers to self-certify - put their own name on the certification. https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elon-musk-lawyer-changes-fine-warning https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elo...
  - leftcenterright 4y ago
    Looking at how complex Twitter's internal systems appear to be based on Mudge's report [1], I doubt informed developers would dare certify things they do not fully understand. Depends a bit on what entity (system, service, environment) they have to certify. > In January 2022, Mudge determined and reported to the executive team that (because of poor engineering architecture decisions that preceded Mudge's employment) Twitter had over 300 corporate systems and upwards of 10,000 services that might still be affected, but Twitter was unable to thoroughly assess its exposure to Log4j and did not have capacity, if pressed in a formal investigation, to show to the FTC that the company had properly remediated the problem. > Mudge knew that the actual underlying data showed that at the end of 2021, 51 % of the ~ 11 thousand full-time employees had privileged access to Twitter's production systems, a 5% increase from the 46% of total employees in February of 2021 that Mudge had shared in his initial findings delivered to the Board in early 2021 1. https://techpolicy.press/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/whistleblower_disclosure.pdf https://techpolicy.press/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/whistleb...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - nrmitchi 4y ago
    This is just another way to materially change the job position to force people to quit. I would also be shocked if the FTC accepted a certification from anyone that is not qualified and does not have the appropriate support system in place to certify.
  - Abroszka 4y ago
    Wow, if that means that the engineer is personally responsible that Twitter follows the FTC rules, then RIP the engineers. I would just stop writing code at that point. No compensation worth that risk. And it opens up interesting questions. If I decline to implement something then can the company fire me at all? Or do they have to prove first that what has been asked does not goes against FTC rules.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    To be clear, the FTC is more than happy to pursue criminal charges against individuals when they screw with users. The (former) CSO of Uber, Joseph Sullivan, is now a felon because of a 2016 hack of Uber and his attempts to cover up the hack. Joe is looking at a potential of 5 years in a federal prison, where there is no time off for good behavior and the like. In the Fed, you serve the whole sentence (some caveats do apply). He'll also loose the right to vote and hold public office, employment rights, domestic rights, and financial and contractual rights, plus a lot of 'probationary' issues. This will follow him for the rest of his life, likely. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-chief-security-officer-uber-convicted-federal-charges-covering-data-breach https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-chief-security-o...
neuronexmachina 4y ago
More info about that: https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elon-musk-lawyer-changes-fine-warning https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elo... > The FTC reached a settlement with Twitter in May after the company was caught using personal user info to target ads. If Twitter doesn’t comply with that agreement, the FTC can issue fines reaching into the billions of dollars, according to the lawyer’s note to employees. > The note goes on to say that its author, who The Verge knows the identity of but is choosing not to disclose, has “heard Alex Spiro (current head of Legal) say that Elon is willing to take on a huge amount of risk in relation to this company and its users, because ‘Elon puts rockets into space, he’s not afraid of the FTC.’” > Musk’s new legal department is now asking engineers to “self-certify” compliance with FTC rules and other privacy laws, according to the lawyer’s note and another employee familiar with the matter, who requested anonymity to speak without the company’s permission. > The employee said this week’s launch of the revamped Twitter Blue subscription disregarded the company’s normal privacy and security review, with a “red team” reviewing potential risks the night before the launch. “The people normally tasked with this stuff were given little notice, little time, and unreasonable to think it [the privacy review] was comprehensive.” None of the red team’s recommendations were implemented before Twitter Blue’s relaunch, the employee said.
- gunapologist99 4y ago
  - canucklady 4y ago
    Twitter entered into a voluntary agreement to avoid prosecution.
  - mig39 4y ago
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a consent decree something that all parties agree to, in order to avoid going to court?
  - burner456123890 4y ago
    Seeing as you're a gun apologist (#99), am I correct interpreting this as approval?
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Due to resignations by 3 top execs yesterday, engineers are now likely to have to make sure that their code is compliant with the FTC w.r.t. the 2011 judgement against Twitter. I think that’s backwards: the resignations by people responsible for compliance were due (among other issues) to the policy change (which they see as violating the order, which would put them personally at risk) that the process would change to engineer self-certification to support the desired velocity of change, the resignations were not the cause of the change. Also, Twitter apparently has a sworn compliance report due today to the FTC (14 days from the change of ownership.) https://twitter.com/Riana_Crypto/status/1590741781666488320?t=GLijoKLDKol_XFLkvI0mRw&s=19 https://twitter.com/Riana_Crypto/status/1590741781666488320?...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

fermentation 4y ago

How does that work? If a SWE isn't aware of the gazillion laws surrounding their code, why isn't the company liable when X of those laws are inevitably violated? What about the people who review the code? Or the people who wrote the systems that push the code?

badwolf 4y ago
It seems Musk's new legal "department" is wanting developers to self-certify - put their own name on the certification. https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elon-musk-lawyer-changes-fine-warning https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elo...
- leftcenterright 4y ago
  Looking at how complex Twitter's internal systems appear to be based on Mudge's report [1], I doubt informed developers would dare certify things they do not fully understand. Depends a bit on what entity (system, service, environment) they have to certify. > In January 2022, Mudge determined and reported to the executive team that (because of poor engineering architecture decisions that preceded Mudge's employment) Twitter had over 300 corporate systems and upwards of 10,000 services that might still be affected, but Twitter was unable to thoroughly assess its exposure to Log4j and did not have capacity, if pressed in a formal investigation, to show to the FTC that the company had properly remediated the problem. > Mudge knew that the actual underlying data showed that at the end of 2021, 51 % of the ~ 11 thousand full-time employees had privileged access to Twitter's production systems, a 5% increase from the 46% of total employees in February of 2021 that Mudge had shared in his initial findings delivered to the Board in early 2021 1. https://techpolicy.press/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/whistleblower_disclosure.pdf https://techpolicy.press/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/whistleb...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nrmitchi 4y ago
  This is just another way to materially change the job position to force people to quit. I would also be shocked if the FTC accepted a certification from anyone that is not qualified and does not have the appropriate support system in place to certify.
- Abroszka 4y ago
  Wow, if that means that the engineer is personally responsible that Twitter follows the FTC rules, then RIP the engineers. I would just stop writing code at that point. No compensation worth that risk. And it opens up interesting questions. If I decline to implement something then can the company fire me at all? Or do they have to prove first that what has been asked does not goes against FTC rules.
- Balgair 4y ago
  To be clear, the FTC is more than happy to pursue criminal charges against individuals when they screw with users. The (former) CSO of Uber, Joseph Sullivan, is now a felon because of a 2016 hack of Uber and his attempts to cover up the hack. Joe is looking at a potential of 5 years in a federal prison, where there is no time off for good behavior and the like. In the Fed, you serve the whole sentence (some caveats do apply). He'll also loose the right to vote and hold public office, employment rights, domestic rights, and financial and contractual rights, plus a lot of 'probationary' issues. This will follow him for the rest of his life, likely. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-chief-security-officer-uber-convicted-federal-charges-covering-data-breach https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-chief-security-o...

neuronexmachina 4y ago

More info about that: https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elon-musk-lawyer-changes-fine-warning https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23451198/twitter-ftc-elo... > The FTC reached a settlement with Twitter in May after the company was caught using personal user info to target ads. If Twitter doesn’t comply with that agreement, the FTC can issue fines reaching into the billions of dollars, according to the lawyer’s note to employees. > The note goes on to say that its author, who The Verge knows the identity of but is choosing not to disclose, has “heard Alex Spiro (current head of Legal) say that Elon is willing to take on a huge amount of risk in relation to this company and its users, because ‘Elon puts rockets into space, he’s not afraid of the FTC.’” > Musk’s new legal department is now asking engineers to “self-certify” compliance with FTC rules and other privacy laws, according to the lawyer’s note and another employee familiar with the matter, who requested anonymity to speak without the company’s permission. > The employee said this week’s launch of the revamped Twitter Blue subscription disregarded the company’s normal privacy and security review, with a “red team” reviewing potential risks the night before the launch. “The people normally tasked with this stuff were given little notice, little time, and unreasonable to think it [the privacy review] was comprehensive.” None of the red team’s recommendations were implemented before Twitter Blue’s relaunch, the employee said.

gunapologist99 4y ago
- canucklady 4y ago
  Twitter entered into a voluntary agreement to avoid prosecution.
- mig39 4y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a consent decree something that all parties agree to, in order to avoid going to court?
- burner456123890 4y ago
  Seeing as you're a gun apologist (#99), am I correct interpreting this as approval?

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Due to resignations by 3 top execs yesterday, engineers are now likely to have to make sure that their code is compliant with the FTC w.r.t. the 2011 judgement against Twitter. I think that’s backwards: the resignations by people responsible for compliance were due (among other issues) to the policy change (which they see as violating the order, which would put them personally at risk) that the process would change to engineer self-certification to support the desired velocity of change, the resignations were not the cause of the change. Also, Twitter apparently has a sworn compliance report due today to the FTC (14 days from the change of ownership.) https://twitter.com/Riana_Crypto/status/1590741781666488320?t=GLijoKLDKol_XFLkvI0mRw&s=19 https://twitter.com/Riana_Crypto/status/1590741781666488320?...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]