3 ms·

My take is probably a bit more hot and less to do with anything provable. I think the real reason for "return to work" is to justify high salaries. If everyone

by kodah 4y ago

My take is probably a bit more hot and less to do with anything provable. I think the real reason for "return to work" is to justify high salaries. If everyone dispersed across the United States then people in the highest markets would get significant drops in pay. It's no secret that subsidizing extremely high housing costs has the benefit of earning those people more than the average worker doing the same work over the same period of time. Productivity is just corporate speak for, "do what I say when I say it".

asdff 4y ago
It's not like your income is scaled to the housing costs though. I just checked craigslist for Los angeles and Columbus, Ohio. 1 bedroom average in LA is $2000 and change, Columbus its $1000. For a year in the average 1 bedroom, you are only paying $12k more or so for the unit in LA. Other costs are about the same, the same MSRP for consumer goods, about the same grocery bill (certain food is honestly very cheap in LA due to its year round availability), about the same $10 pints of beers and $12 entrees at your typical late 20s and up drinking/eating establishment. Most engineer salaries however are substantially higher on the west coast than in the midwest, much higher than a $12k pay bump that would have covered the difference in housing costs for average 1 bedrooms between these markets. I don't think its so much that engineers on the west coast pay a lot more in cost of living and therefore have to get a higher salary to put food on the table the same as they do out east. I think its simply that engineers who happen to be on the west coast are tapped into an excellent network of job opportunities and tend to be highly trained, and for companies to get at this network for its talent themselves, they need to pay these inflated west coast rates to get into the door. This is just what the prices of this market have come to be, and they must have gotten to such a point through other factors than the paltry in comparison difference in cost of living.
- Supermancho 4y ago
  > Most engineer salaries however are substantially higher on the west coast than in the midwest, In northern CA this holds true and even moreso in Seattle. In southern california (notably because you mention Los Angeles), this is not true. There are high paying jobs in SoCal, but they are much scarcer than the talent pool. While there are more opportunities in SoCal than other parts of the west coast, they are lower paying and worse conditions overall that are closer to midwest counterparts. This view is borne of 40 years of experience in SoCal (and everyone I worked with). Moving to Seattle, I instantly made 30% more AND rent was cheaper.
  - asdff 4y ago
    FWIW average rents in seattle are about $1600 a month for 1 bedrooms on craigslist right now, so you'd only be saving $7200 a year living in Columbus Ohio. I know salary data online is what it is, but from zippia.com at least average SWE salary is $75k in Columbus, and $115k in seattle, so even with the cost of living difference of $7k factored in, there is a huge bump in pay for this job market of engineers versus the market in Columbus, OH.
    - Supermancho 4y ago
      Southern California and Seattle are greater metropolitan areas, that coincide with job markets (the job markets are the comparison I drew). You don't rent IN Seattle proper. That's silly, when Renton gets you 2br or Kent gets you 3br. It's like saying "Los Angeles" when your rental options are cheapest in Downy or Anaheim.
- greedo 4y ago
  I live in the midwest, in a house that's appraised around $350K. Every time I visit family on the West coast, I look at similar house prices, and they're all at least 3x or 4x. No way could I afford that; and I sure wouldn't get a huge salary bump for relocating.
  - asdff 4y ago
    At the end of the day median prices of mortgages follow median salaries seen in the area, and not everyone who buys a west coast house goes broke from it otherwise prices would decrease. Maybe your line of work isn't so lucrative on the west coast, but for many the bump in salary is more than enough to cover cost of living. Then factor in other benefits that might be locally specific, like noncompetes being illegal in california so you can leave a business to start your own immediately, or your property taxes being what they were assessed at when you bought the property despite market gains, or a stronger social safety net that comes from a state government that generates budgetary surpluses, and things might look even better over time.

by kodah 4y ago

asdff 4y ago

It's not like your income is scaled to the housing costs though. I just checked craigslist for Los angeles and Columbus, Ohio. 1 bedroom average in LA is $2000 and change, Columbus its $1000. For a year in the average 1 bedroom, you are only paying $12k more or so for the unit in LA. Other costs are about the same, the same MSRP for consumer goods, about the same grocery bill (certain food is honestly very cheap in LA due to its year round availability), about the same $10 pints of beers and $12 entrees at your typical late 20s and up drinking/eating establishment. Most engineer salaries however are substantially higher on the west coast than in the midwest, much higher than a $12k pay bump that would have covered the difference in housing costs for average 1 bedrooms between these markets. I don't think its so much that engineers on the west coast pay a lot more in cost of living and therefore have to get a higher salary to put food on the table the same as they do out east. I think its simply that engineers who happen to be on the west coast are tapped into an excellent network of job opportunities and tend to be highly trained, and for companies to get at this network for its talent themselves, they need to pay these inflated west coast rates to get into the door. This is just what the prices of this market have come to be, and they must have gotten to such a point through other factors than the paltry in comparison difference in cost of living.

Supermancho 4y ago
> Most engineer salaries however are substantially higher on the west coast than in the midwest, In northern CA this holds true and even moreso in Seattle. In southern california (notably because you mention Los Angeles), this is not true. There are high paying jobs in SoCal, but they are much scarcer than the talent pool. While there are more opportunities in SoCal than other parts of the west coast, they are lower paying and worse conditions overall that are closer to midwest counterparts. This view is borne of 40 years of experience in SoCal (and everyone I worked with). Moving to Seattle, I instantly made 30% more AND rent was cheaper.
- asdff 4y ago
  FWIW average rents in seattle are about $1600 a month for 1 bedrooms on craigslist right now, so you'd only be saving $7200 a year living in Columbus Ohio. I know salary data online is what it is, but from zippia.com at least average SWE salary is $75k in Columbus, and $115k in seattle, so even with the cost of living difference of $7k factored in, there is a huge bump in pay for this job market of engineers versus the market in Columbus, OH.
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    Southern California and Seattle are greater metropolitan areas, that coincide with job markets (the job markets are the comparison I drew). You don't rent IN Seattle proper. That's silly, when Renton gets you 2br or Kent gets you 3br. It's like saying "Los Angeles" when your rental options are cheapest in Downy or Anaheim.
greedo 4y ago
I live in the midwest, in a house that's appraised around $350K. Every time I visit family on the West coast, I look at similar house prices, and they're all at least 3x or 4x. No way could I afford that; and I sure wouldn't get a huge salary bump for relocating.
- asdff 4y ago
  At the end of the day median prices of mortgages follow median salaries seen in the area, and not everyone who buys a west coast house goes broke from it otherwise prices would decrease. Maybe your line of work isn't so lucrative on the west coast, but for many the bump in salary is more than enough to cover cost of living. Then factor in other benefits that might be locally specific, like noncompetes being illegal in california so you can leave a business to start your own immediately, or your property taxes being what they were assessed at when you bought the property despite market gains, or a stronger social safety net that comes from a state government that generates budgetary surpluses, and things might look even better over time.