4 ms·

One thing at play is there’s likely a large imbalance with the male/female ratios — lots more single men than women under 50. Same in the US, specifically on th

One thing at play is there’s likely a large imbalance with the male/female ratios — lots more single men than women under 50. Same in the US, specifically on the west coast cities.

tibbon 4y ago
What creates this imbalance? Don't more men die from accidents, and there's a slightly lower (like 0.5%) number of male people born? Is there some part of the country with far more women?
- 988747 4y ago
  Access to abortion creates the imbalance. Indian women are much more likely to terminate pregnancy when they are expecting a girl.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Women not having equal rights and opportunities is what creates the incentive to terminate pregnancies when expecting a girl.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      According to the article, it's the cultural expectation that the bride's family pays for the wedding etc.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        That would fall under not having equal rights or opportunities.
        giantg2 4y ago
        They are separate. You can have the same rights and opportunities and have cultural expections. Paying for marriage is not required, but something the families choose to do. The woman has every right not to participate in that and must consent to the marriage for it to take place.
        wiradikusuma 4y ago
        Not disagreeing with you about equality, but in many other areas it's on the groom, yet I don't think any pregnant lady would think, "Shit my baby is boy/girl. I don't want to pay for his/her wedding. Better abort now."
        spywaregorilla 4y ago
        The dowry equivalents and what not can cost as much as a house
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    So it's not access to abortion creating the imbalance then. It's Indian women's preference for male children.
- ronnier 4y ago
  Naturally more males are born, something like 5%. Combined with India having a history of aborting female babies
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  Older men date younger women, so particularly at younger age brackets you find more single men than women.
  - seydor 4y ago
    you imply that they date/marry multiple women, or else the math doesnt work out
    - snovv_crash 4y ago
      No, there are a bunch of old single women to balance the young single men.
- red_trumpet 4y ago
  > and there's a slightly lower (like 0.5%) number of male people born? What region are you talking about? At least globally, there seem to be more men born than women.[1] Also seems to hold for the US[2]. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Global_Population-Pyramid-1950-to-2100.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Global_P... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USA_Population_Pyramid.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USA_Population_Pyramid.sv...
  - tibbon 4y ago
    I had always heard there were more women, but I stand corrected! Thank you!
- peruvian 4y ago
  West Coast imbalance is due to industries (tech, military, planes etc.). India probably because families didn't want daughters.
rootusrootus 4y ago
How can there be much of an imbalance? Looking at the US numbers [0] it appears that there is a big imbalance if you just look at the 18-29 age group. But it reverses at the other end of the age spectrum. So... young women prefer older men, and vice versa? I don't think that is a new thing. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profi...
- frontman1988 4y ago
  In India female foeticide was a big thing in the last 20-30 years. Effects of that are now evident with an excess male population. Wherever you go in India, there are more men than women visible.
  - swores 4y ago
    Given many societies either force women into different lives than men (e.g. Afghanistan) or have cultures that lead to, on average, different lives (most of the world that still has at least some bias towards women being the child carers, house runners, etc. even parts that have/are moved/ing away from that being a default expectation), "how many of each gender are visible as I walk around a country" is a really bad way to judge. And plenty of other potential cultural gender differences, for example in many countries men may feel less afraid of being out alone especially at night. Hell, even IF looking at the streets were a good way to judge, you'd still have to look at an awful lot of a lot of them before you could make statements about a whole country the size of India, and you'd need to avoid any personal cognitive biases (like confirmation bias), and... This link suggests that as of last yeah there were 1020 women per 1000 men in India https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303286/india-urban-and-rural-gender-ratio/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303286/india-urban-and-... Maybe you can find a source for <30yo gender split there? But whatever it is, I highly doubt it's a big enough gap to be the cause for you not seeing (/noticing) as many women as men in public.
    - frontman1988 4y ago
      https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/08/23/indias-sex-ratio-at-birth-begins-to-normalize/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/08/23/indias-sex-r... Around 109 males for 100 females in 1991(30 years ago) and 110 for 100 in 2001(20 years ago). Sex ratio at birth has only recently begin to normalize with complete banning of prenatal testing. This has already create a massive problem of "missing women": https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/46-million-girls-went-missing-in-india/article31957348.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/46-million-girls-went... https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/missing-girls-india-national-shame https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/missing-girls-indi...
maxsilver 4y ago
Is there a large imbalance? That's definitely not true in the US. (according to the census, there are more single women than men in the US, and the different is only about ~3% or so) https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/unmarried-single-americans-week.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/unmarried-single-ame... I think a lot of men focus on dating apps specifically (where the numbers actually are super imbalanced) which creates the perception of a large imbalance everywhere, a perception that isn't really true in general.
- ronnier 4y ago
  You are including over 50s. Every single major city in the USA has more men than women under 50. It’s specifically imbalanced in the west coast tech areas.
  - CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
    Interesting, I hadn't heard of this. Where do the women go? Also, link?
    - throwaway920102 4y ago
      Play with the sliders on this to understand: https://jonathansoma.com/singles/ https://jonathansoma.com/singles/
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    This isn't true in NY/Boston/DC.
  - maxsilver 4y ago
    I'm not sure where your getting this. According to the data, there's slightly more women (even if we scope it to just any single generation, let's say just millennials in NYC for simplicity - https://www.mynbc5.com/article/theres-a-reason-why-so-many-millennial-women-are-single/8566463 https://www.mynbc5.com/article/theres-a-reason-why-so-many-m... ) In my home state, for example, there's about 8% more single Women than Men. And there's a list of like two dozen medium-sized and major metros where this is true across the US (Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit, Richmond and DC metro, etc) - https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/best-cities-single-men/ https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/best-cities-single-men/ Atlanta too, has more single women than men by a wide margin ( https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/atlanta/why-dating-in-atlanta-is-different-than-anywhere-else https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/atlanta/why-dating-i... ) Yes, the tech hub metros lean male-heavy (SF, Seattle, Austin, etc). But, generally speaking, most of the US is the opposite, so.
curiousllama 4y ago
> specifically on the west coast cities. This is just a US-thing: more men on the west coast, more women on the east coast.
- ronnier 4y ago
  Not under 50. Under 50 there’s more men regardless, but it’s more imbalanced on the west coast.
  - ptato 4y ago
    How? Immigration?
    - ronnier 4y ago
      Naturally more men are born (slightly) plus immigration. Used to balance off by me facing early deaths from dangerous work and fighting wars, but that’s largely not happening anymore in the west.
  - curiousllama 4y ago
    NYC has ~6% more women than men at all ages > 20 https://www.statista.com/statistics/799446/resident-population-of-nyc-by-sex-and-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/799446/resident-populati...
shagie 4y ago
> One thing at play is there’s likely a large imbalance with the male/female ratios This is known as "bare branches": India’s bare branches - https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/india-s-bare-branches/story-CSEhacsxs3l2pQCncM4l2M.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/india-s-bare-branches... Tackling India's Bare Branches - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353220444_Tackling_India%27s_Bare_Branches https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353220444_Tackling_... Bare branches, redundant males - https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/18/bare-branches-redundant-males https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/18/bare-branches-redu... India’s Bare Branches - https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/03/19/india’s-bare-branches/ https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/03/19/india’s-bare-branc... (and many more) The book that brought attention to this all is Bare Branches - The Security Implications of Asia's Surplus Male Population https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/ > What happens to a society that has too many men? In this provocative book, Valerie Hudson and Andrea den Boer argue that, historically, high male-to-female ratios often trigger domestic and international violence. Most violent crime is committed by young unmarried males who lack stable social bonds. Although there is not always a direct cause-and-effect relationship, these surplus men often play a crucial role in making violence prevalent within society. Governments sometimes respond to this problem by enlisting young surplus males in military campaigns and high-risk public works projects. Countries with high male-to-female ratios also tend to develop authoritarian political systems. > Hudson and den Boer suggest that the sex ratios of many Asian countries, particularly China and India—which represent almost 40 percent of the world's population—are being skewed in favor of males on a scale that may be unprecedented in human history. Through offspring sex selection (often in the form of sex-selective abortion and female infanticide), these countries are acquiring a disproportionate number of low-status young adult males, called "bare branches" by the Chinese. > Hudson and den Boer argue that this surplus male population in Asia's largest countries threatens domestic stability and international security. The prospects for peace and democracy are dimmed by the growth of bare branches in China and India, and, they maintain, the sex ratios of these countries will have global implications in the twenty-first century.

One thing at play is there’s likely a large imbalance with the male/female ratios — lots more single men than women under 50. Same in the US, specifically on the west coast cities.

tibbon 4y ago

What creates this imbalance? Don't more men die from accidents, and there's a slightly lower (like 0.5%) number of male people born? Is there some part of the country with far more women?

988747 4y ago
Access to abortion creates the imbalance. Indian women are much more likely to terminate pregnancy when they are expecting a girl.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Women not having equal rights and opportunities is what creates the incentive to terminate pregnancies when expecting a girl.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    According to the article, it's the cultural expectation that the bride's family pays for the wedding etc.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      That would fall under not having equal rights or opportunities.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        They are separate. You can have the same rights and opportunities and have cultural expections. Paying for marriage is not required, but something the families choose to do. The woman has every right not to participate in that and must consent to the marriage for it to take place.
      - wiradikusuma 4y ago
        Not disagreeing with you about equality, but in many other areas it's on the groom, yet I don't think any pregnant lady would think, "Shit my baby is boy/girl. I don't want to pay for his/her wedding. Better abort now."
        spywaregorilla 4y ago
        The dowry equivalents and what not can cost as much as a house
- mathieuh 4y ago
  So it's not access to abortion creating the imbalance then. It's Indian women's preference for male children.
ronnier 4y ago
Naturally more males are born, something like 5%. Combined with India having a history of aborting female babies
snovv_crash 4y ago
Older men date younger women, so particularly at younger age brackets you find more single men than women.
- seydor 4y ago
  you imply that they date/marry multiple women, or else the math doesnt work out
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    No, there are a bunch of old single women to balance the young single men.
red_trumpet 4y ago
> and there's a slightly lower (like 0.5%) number of male people born? What region are you talking about? At least globally, there seem to be more men born than women.[1] Also seems to hold for the US[2]. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Global_Population-Pyramid-1950-to-2100.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Global_P... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USA_Population_Pyramid.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USA_Population_Pyramid.sv...
- tibbon 4y ago
  I had always heard there were more women, but I stand corrected! Thank you!
peruvian 4y ago
West Coast imbalance is due to industries (tech, military, planes etc.). India probably because families didn't want daughters.

rootusrootus 4y ago

How can there be much of an imbalance? Looking at the US numbers [0] it appears that there is a big imbalance if you just look at the 18-29 age group. But it reverses at the other end of the age spectrum. So... young women prefer older men, and vice versa? I don't think that is a new thing. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profi...

frontman1988 4y ago
In India female foeticide was a big thing in the last 20-30 years. Effects of that are now evident with an excess male population. Wherever you go in India, there are more men than women visible.
- swores 4y ago
  Given many societies either force women into different lives than men (e.g. Afghanistan) or have cultures that lead to, on average, different lives (most of the world that still has at least some bias towards women being the child carers, house runners, etc. even parts that have/are moved/ing away from that being a default expectation), "how many of each gender are visible as I walk around a country" is a really bad way to judge. And plenty of other potential cultural gender differences, for example in many countries men may feel less afraid of being out alone especially at night. Hell, even IF looking at the streets were a good way to judge, you'd still have to look at an awful lot of a lot of them before you could make statements about a whole country the size of India, and you'd need to avoid any personal cognitive biases (like confirmation bias), and... This link suggests that as of last yeah there were 1020 women per 1000 men in India https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303286/india-urban-and-rural-gender-ratio/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303286/india-urban-and-... Maybe you can find a source for <30yo gender split there? But whatever it is, I highly doubt it's a big enough gap to be the cause for you not seeing (/noticing) as many women as men in public.
  - frontman1988 4y ago
    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/08/23/indias-sex-ratio-at-birth-begins-to-normalize/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/08/23/indias-sex-r... Around 109 males for 100 females in 1991(30 years ago) and 110 for 100 in 2001(20 years ago). Sex ratio at birth has only recently begin to normalize with complete banning of prenatal testing. This has already create a massive problem of "missing women": https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/46-million-girls-went-missing-in-india/article31957348.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/46-million-girls-went... https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/missing-girls-india-national-shame https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/missing-girls-indi...

maxsilver 4y ago

Is there a large imbalance? That's definitely not true in the US. (according to the census, there are more single women than men in the US, and the different is only about ~3% or so) https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/unmarried-single-americans-week.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/unmarried-single-ame... I think a lot of men focus on dating apps specifically (where the numbers actually are super imbalanced) which creates the perception of a large imbalance everywhere, a perception that isn't really true in general.

ronnier 4y ago
You are including over 50s. Every single major city in the USA has more men than women under 50. It’s specifically imbalanced in the west coast tech areas.
- CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
  Interesting, I hadn't heard of this. Where do the women go? Also, link?
  - throwaway920102 4y ago
    Play with the sliders on this to understand: https://jonathansoma.com/singles/ https://jonathansoma.com/singles/
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  This isn't true in NY/Boston/DC.
- maxsilver 4y ago
  I'm not sure where your getting this. According to the data, there's slightly more women (even if we scope it to just any single generation, let's say just millennials in NYC for simplicity - https://www.mynbc5.com/article/theres-a-reason-why-so-many-millennial-women-are-single/8566463 https://www.mynbc5.com/article/theres-a-reason-why-so-many-m... ) In my home state, for example, there's about 8% more single Women than Men. And there's a list of like two dozen medium-sized and major metros where this is true across the US (Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit, Richmond and DC metro, etc) - https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/best-cities-single-men/ https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/best-cities-single-men/ Atlanta too, has more single women than men by a wide margin ( https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/atlanta/why-dating-in-atlanta-is-different-than-anywhere-else https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/atlanta/why-dating-i... ) Yes, the tech hub metros lean male-heavy (SF, Seattle, Austin, etc). But, generally speaking, most of the US is the opposite, so.

curiousllama 4y ago

> specifically on the west coast cities. This is just a US-thing: more men on the west coast, more women on the east coast.

ronnier 4y ago
Not under 50. Under 50 there’s more men regardless, but it’s more imbalanced on the west coast.
- ptato 4y ago
  How? Immigration?
  - ronnier 4y ago
    Naturally more men are born (slightly) plus immigration. Used to balance off by me facing early deaths from dangerous work and fighting wars, but that’s largely not happening anymore in the west.
- curiousllama 4y ago
  NYC has ~6% more women than men at all ages > 20 https://www.statista.com/statistics/799446/resident-population-of-nyc-by-sex-and-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/799446/resident-populati...

shagie 4y ago

> One thing at play is there’s likely a large imbalance with the male/female ratios This is known as "bare branches": India’s bare branches - https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/india-s-bare-branches/story-CSEhacsxs3l2pQCncM4l2M.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/india-s-bare-branches... Tackling India's Bare Branches - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353220444_Tackling_India%27s_Bare_Branches https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353220444_Tackling_... Bare branches, redundant males - https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/18/bare-branches-redundant-males https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/04/18/bare-branches-redu... India’s Bare Branches - https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/03/19/india’s-bare-branches/ https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/03/19/india’s-bare-branc... (and many more) The book that brought attention to this all is Bare Branches - The Security Implications of Asia's Surplus Male Population https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/ > What happens to a society that has too many men? In this provocative book, Valerie Hudson and Andrea den Boer argue that, historically, high male-to-female ratios often trigger domestic and international violence. Most violent crime is committed by young unmarried males who lack stable social bonds. Although there is not always a direct cause-and-effect relationship, these surplus men often play a crucial role in making violence prevalent within society. Governments sometimes respond to this problem by enlisting young surplus males in military campaigns and high-risk public works projects. Countries with high male-to-female ratios also tend to develop authoritarian political systems. > Hudson and den Boer suggest that the sex ratios of many Asian countries, particularly China and India—which represent almost 40 percent of the world's population—are being skewed in favor of males on a scale that may be unprecedented in human history. Through offspring sex selection (often in the form of sex-selective abortion and female infanticide), these countries are acquiring a disproportionate number of low-status young adult males, called "bare branches" by the Chinese. > Hudson and den Boer argue that this surplus male population in Asia's largest countries threatens domestic stability and international security. The prospects for peace and democracy are dimmed by the growth of bare branches in China and India, and, they maintain, the sex ratios of these countries will have global implications in the twenty-first century.