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To start the discussion off on a thorny point: I recently got “called out” on addressing a group of people as “guys” on account of the interpretation that I’m a
by DiggyJohnson 4y ago
To start the discussion off on a thorny point: I recently got “called out” on addressing a group of people as “guys” on account of the interpretation that I’m assuming a single gender. This really frustrated me, and seemed extremely uncalled for. I can remember teachers in school say “cmon guys settle down now” to refer to their co-ed classrooms.
Is there any response I could give to this out-of-the-blue criticism besides quietly judging the requester and moving on? I make very little apology for using language in this way, and I was surprised it was interpreted in the most inflammatory way possible.
- the_gipsy 4y agoHave you considered that you may be wrong?
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y agoHave you considered using a handle that isn't a derogatory term?
- the_gipsy 4y agoIt's my heritage, and a completely irrelevant topic.
- MartinCron 4y ago
- klyrs 4y ago> When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less. ~ Humpty Dumpty
- tomjakubowski 4y agoYour zinger is presuming OP is a straight male? I don't think anyone is arguing that "guys" would be accepted usage to refer to a group that's entirely female gendered, only that it's acceptable for addressing mixed company. A bisexual person may well think that way about their sexual history in toto -- or they may find distinguishing genders is useful in this context.
- klyrs 4y agowillhinsa is arguing exactly that in a sibling comment. It's a peculiar thing. I've seen guys get offended at the assertion that "guys" is gendered, and then enraged at the suggestion that they may have slept with "guys."
- version_five 4y agoThere is no contradiction. Words have meanings that depend on context. Pretending that a word in different contexts must mean the same thing is disingenuous. "I only date guys" - unambiguously saying you go for the male gender "Hey guys" - a gender neutral greeting Dick can be a man's name, a detective, an anatomical reference, or an insult. Somehow we manage not to feign outrage at a Richard's nickname
- klyrs 4y ago> Words have meanings that depend on context. Ah, see, nuance! So often when this topic comes up, there is none of that to be found! Hence, people asking obnoxious questions like "how many guys have you slept with." You see, there is a contradiction: people get offended when their words offend others, and they exhibit this offense with kneejerk responses. But what's happening there? The original speaker is getting offended by the others' words.
- MartinCron 4y agoSomeone who is upset enough about being being called out for using gendered language that they post a complaint about the interaction, on hacker news, I would bet real money that the OP is a straight male. I would also bet that the straight male would say "no" to the question "do you fuck guys?"
- jcims 4y agoYour take asserts that words are essentially static in their meaning regardless of usage. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guy It's exactly like the evolution of the term 'bitch'. Its origins are gendered but its predominant application now has nothing to do with canine sex or mean women.
- j-bos 4y agoThis question reminds me of the old argumemt about calling the monster Frankenstein.
- bumsocks 4y ago
- kortex 4y agoIt's almost like TFA is about this very distinction. Whether or not you agree that "guys" should be used as such, it is in fact used as such in common english. "how many guys have you had sex with?" implies maleness, though it would also depend quite a lot on context. "what's up, guys?" is used in a gender-neutral way, therefore it is gender-neutral. That's an entirely descriptive, not prescriptive, observation. Language, especially slang-y words, are more learned than taught, and neutral-guy is no exception. We humans use "guy(s)" as male in some context and neutral/unspecified in other contexts. No one told us to do so. Whether we should consciously stop doing so is a judgement call. When someone actively makes that correction in conversation, that rubs some guys (including my bio-female partner) the wrong way. Now, I think it's noble to attempt to use gender-biased language (such as neutral-guy), and eventually it will hopefully fade from usage, but it's still obnoxious to make the correction by interrupting conversation.
- willhinsa 4y agoYou didn’t use the word incorrectly. They are just an asshole. “Guys” as a collective noun has no sex/gender. It’s as gendered as “y’all”. Words can have different meanings. Fuck those people.
- dang 4y ago"Please don't fulminate." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y agoThe person who called you out sounds like a loser who spends too much time in their weirdo bubble online or in some sort of extreme activist community in person. This sort of thing has been leaking out into the rest of society lately and when it does we should ridicule it and the people who hold those beliefs. Commence the downvotes.
- modzu 4y agowelcome to the 21st century. you may want to reply with an even bigger virtue signal
- cjbgkagh 4y agoI’ve always considered it a non gendered term of endearment. As a reference to how children would dress up as Guy Fawkes at parades in the UK.
- version_five 4y agoThey are trying to get power over you. Best to just shrug and ignore, making as little of it as possible. Trolls grow in power the more you feed them - so take it the same as it someone posts a troll comment in reply to a forum post. Just ignore
- burkaman 4y agoThere are many possible responses, it depends what your goal is. If you just care about making your audience comfortable, you can say "my bad, folks" and then move on and forget about it forever. If you want to understand what the issue could possibly be, you could approach that person afterwards and ask them why they called you out and why they don't want to be referred to as a "guy". If you only care about being right, you could argue with them on the spot.
- nkrisc 4y agoI don’t think such an uncharitable interpretation deserves any response.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tomlockwood 4y agoI don't understand why people are so sensitive these days! Just don't use "guys" and move on. Easy.
- jwrallie 4y agoOr just use "guys" and move on. The move on is the important part.
- tomlockwood 4y agoAbsolutely, which is why it's so funny that the commenter here is using their "frustration" and the "uncalled for" nature of their reaction to justify wanting to continue to use "guys". This guy should just drop it and move on, easy. Cut the sensitivity out and just, move on.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- zen_1 4y agoPeople choosing to be (or just acting, you can't tell for sure) over inconsequential word choices never ceases to amaze.
- tomlockwood 4y agoYeah some men are so sensitive over this that they'll literally rush out to write "academic" papers about it! Just get over it, dude.
- nosoble 4y agoReminds me of my coworker who used to come in every day and greet our all-male office with "morning ladies!" This soon stopped just before our first female colleague joined. Our boss pulled us all in to a meeting to inform us that we now have to use gender-neutral terms like "folks" and "peeps", and there was to be no more joking around gendered forms of address. What a spoilsport.
- MrPatan 4y agoYou should have instantly corrected yourself to "guys and communist fifthcolumnists" and carried on.
- jihadjihad 4y agoThe place at worked at one job ago had a Slack bot set up so that if you said "guys" in any public channel, it would spit out a message like "Maybe use different word instead?" It was about as efffective and intelligent as it sounds. /s
- smegsicle 4y ago> it was about as effective and intelligent as it sounds. /s fascinated by this "/s"
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]