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Maybe people will finally get some sense and stop storing their wealth in digital currency that is backed by absolutely nothing. I think a lot of dominoes are a

Maybe people will finally get some sense and stop storing their wealth in digital currency that is backed by absolutely nothing. I think a lot of dominoes are about to fall in the crypto world

sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
An exchange explodes almost every year. I doubt anything substantial has changed. In fact, binance looks better than ever.
- sgt101 4y ago
  Well, absent the implosion of general confidence in crypto and the likely hawkish reaction of regulators - I agree.
  - sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
    Looking like I am wrong on this one, as the media coverage grows.
Mistletoe 4y ago
What backs this? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL Might of USA and all that? Yes I’ve heard all that before. Rome, France, England… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debasement History is more on the side of it happening than not. “The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” -Satoshi Nakamoto
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  > History is more on the side of it happening than not. Is this true? Of all the years that various countries have used traditional fiat currency, has debasement happened more years than it hasn't? I don't think so but I'm not certain. Obviously, nobody can predict the future here, and history tells us that all empires come to an end at some point. But we're watching crypto speed-run through all of the issues that the American banking system had in the Free Banking era leading up to the creation of the Fed. Operating in this trustless crypto system still makes it possible for people in control to do stupid things which threaten the viability of the entire system. Personally, I think cases like this prove that wealth concentration in the hands of the few leads to these situations. It's a not a government problem, it's a concentration of wealth and power problem. Individuals shouldn't have this much money or power to act so recklessly, but we accept the outcome as a consequence of our winner-take-all culture.
  - jdasdf 4y ago
    >Is this true? Of all the years that various countries have used traditional fiat currency, has debasement happened more years than it hasn't? I don't think so but I'm not certain. Do you know of any currency over the past 200 years that has suffered deflation throughout that period? I don't mean "occasionally has one year with deflation", I mean, the real value of 1 unit of that currency 200 years ago was less than what it is today.
    - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
      Certainly major currencies have experienced periods of deflation (i.e. the Great Depression, the Great Recession, etc.). But deflation is a sign of weakening economy as well. There's an obsession with inflation, but the reality is that some inflation is inevitable in a growing economy as demand outpaces supply. Economists agree pretty consistently on that.
      - jdasdf 4y ago
        I want to be very clear here, because I believe you're saying what you are saying because you have been taught that way, and because the mainstream media and general economic literature seem to hold that view, and so you, in good faith, are merely repeating it. You are wrong. The economist that agree with that view are also wrong, or they are biased by conflicts of interest. The central banks that support and propagate that view, have a significant conflict of interest as well. I heavily recommend you consider the incentives of the people teaching that view, and that you re-think from the most elementary of economic principles how exactly that would work. There is no long term benefit to monetary inflation. I cannot repeat this enough, monetary inflation, just like monetary deflation, is a distortion on the market, and like any other distortions on the market, it has a net negative expected value. Of course this negative expected value is distributed throughout the entire economy, whereas the benefits are concentrated on one entity, the issuer of the currency, which is the central bank and the state by association.
nightski 4y ago
Do you typically invest all of your wealth in one thing? Because for most of us I imagine that is not the case.
scottiebarnes 4y ago
The Bitcoin protocol and network continues to operate exactly as expected. Here, people trusted a "bank" (an exchange acting like a bank), and got burned when the bank gambled and lost.
- sytelus 4y ago
  Without exchanges like FTX or Coinbase, how should general public acquire crypto?
  - rahen 4y ago
    Bisq, of course. https://bisq.network https://bisq.network With a bit more manpower, they could make the UI more usable to the general public. I wish there was an iOS/Android version too.
  - scottiebarnes 4y ago
    Use an exchange that publishes proof of reserves, and take custody of your crypto immediately.
  - taormina 4y ago
    What was the point of decentralizing then?
  - chromatin 4y ago
    Crypto? Who knows (or cares), but Bitcoin on the other hand has a robust P2P marketplace: Bisq https://bisq.network/ https://bisq.network/ Hodl Hodl https://hodlhodl.com/ https://hodlhodl.com/ Robosats https://learn.robosats.com/ https://learn.robosats.com/
  - netheril96 4y ago
    In a practical note, you can just use FTX and Binance to convert between USD and BTC. Withdraw them as soon as possible so your funds safe (as long as the BTC network)
  - eddsh1994 4y ago
    There’s a big peer to peer market, fwiw
sytelus 4y ago
At present no major currency is backed by anything material but trust. USD, for example, is only viable because, at the deepest level, trust in it is enforced by US army. There are three major class of people who need digital currency: (1) who are super rich and won't care about putting their 1% of wealth for "diversify and forget", (2) who need to transfer money eyes off from governments, (3) people who need alternative to be manipulated away from US fed. As long as there exist a group of people needing digital currency there is an intrinsic value assigned to that currency.
- polrjoy 4y ago
  Chinese yuan is economically backed by state owned companies that routinely sell essential goods and services at below market prices when they otherwise would rise too fast.
- ummonk 4y ago
  If the crypto-bros had a militia as powerful as the US army then perhaps crypto would be worth something.
- CaptainZapp 4y ago
  > At present no major currency is backed by anything material but trust. While this is true in theory I trust the Swiss National Bank (in my case) significantly more than all those two bit shysters running crypto exchanges, while being extremely economical with the truth in all their communications.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jonstewart 4y ago
  > trust in it is enforced by the US army That's not exactly "absolutely nothing", to use the parent's phrase.
- sgt101 4y ago
  At it's deepest level the $ is viable because of the consent of the people of the USA. The US Army isn't either capable of enforcing law in the USA or exercising influence out of the USA without that consent.
buitreVirtual 4y ago
Storing wealth means that you can get your wealth out later. In this case, people are just giving it away.

Maybe people will finally get some sense and stop storing their wealth in digital currency that is backed by absolutely nothing. I think a lot of dominoes are about to fall in the crypto world

sicp-enjoyer 4y ago

An exchange explodes almost every year. I doubt anything substantial has changed. In fact, binance looks better than ever.

sgt101 4y ago
Well, absent the implosion of general confidence in crypto and the likely hawkish reaction of regulators - I agree.
- sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
  Looking like I am wrong on this one, as the media coverage grows.

Mistletoe 4y ago

What backs this? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL Might of USA and all that? Yes I’ve heard all that before. Rome, France, England… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debasement History is more on the side of it happening than not. “The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” -Satoshi Nakamoto

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
> History is more on the side of it happening than not. Is this true? Of all the years that various countries have used traditional fiat currency, has debasement happened more years than it hasn't? I don't think so but I'm not certain. Obviously, nobody can predict the future here, and history tells us that all empires come to an end at some point. But we're watching crypto speed-run through all of the issues that the American banking system had in the Free Banking era leading up to the creation of the Fed. Operating in this trustless crypto system still makes it possible for people in control to do stupid things which threaten the viability of the entire system. Personally, I think cases like this prove that wealth concentration in the hands of the few leads to these situations. It's a not a government problem, it's a concentration of wealth and power problem. Individuals shouldn't have this much money or power to act so recklessly, but we accept the outcome as a consequence of our winner-take-all culture.
- jdasdf 4y ago
  >Is this true? Of all the years that various countries have used traditional fiat currency, has debasement happened more years than it hasn't? I don't think so but I'm not certain. Do you know of any currency over the past 200 years that has suffered deflation throughout that period? I don't mean "occasionally has one year with deflation", I mean, the real value of 1 unit of that currency 200 years ago was less than what it is today.
  - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
    Certainly major currencies have experienced periods of deflation (i.e. the Great Depression, the Great Recession, etc.). But deflation is a sign of weakening economy as well. There's an obsession with inflation, but the reality is that some inflation is inevitable in a growing economy as demand outpaces supply. Economists agree pretty consistently on that.
    - jdasdf 4y ago
      I want to be very clear here, because I believe you're saying what you are saying because you have been taught that way, and because the mainstream media and general economic literature seem to hold that view, and so you, in good faith, are merely repeating it. You are wrong. The economist that agree with that view are also wrong, or they are biased by conflicts of interest. The central banks that support and propagate that view, have a significant conflict of interest as well. I heavily recommend you consider the incentives of the people teaching that view, and that you re-think from the most elementary of economic principles how exactly that would work. There is no long term benefit to monetary inflation. I cannot repeat this enough, monetary inflation, just like monetary deflation, is a distortion on the market, and like any other distortions on the market, it has a net negative expected value. Of course this negative expected value is distributed throughout the entire economy, whereas the benefits are concentrated on one entity, the issuer of the currency, which is the central bank and the state by association.

nightski 4y ago

Do you typically invest all of your wealth in one thing? Because for most of us I imagine that is not the case.

scottiebarnes 4y ago

The Bitcoin protocol and network continues to operate exactly as expected. Here, people trusted a "bank" (an exchange acting like a bank), and got burned when the bank gambled and lost.

sytelus 4y ago
Without exchanges like FTX or Coinbase, how should general public acquire crypto?
- rahen 4y ago
  Bisq, of course. https://bisq.network https://bisq.network With a bit more manpower, they could make the UI more usable to the general public. I wish there was an iOS/Android version too.
- scottiebarnes 4y ago
  Use an exchange that publishes proof of reserves, and take custody of your crypto immediately.
- taormina 4y ago
  What was the point of decentralizing then?
- chromatin 4y ago
  Crypto? Who knows (or cares), but Bitcoin on the other hand has a robust P2P marketplace: Bisq https://bisq.network/ https://bisq.network/ Hodl Hodl https://hodlhodl.com/ https://hodlhodl.com/ Robosats https://learn.robosats.com/ https://learn.robosats.com/
- netheril96 4y ago
  In a practical note, you can just use FTX and Binance to convert between USD and BTC. Withdraw them as soon as possible so your funds safe (as long as the BTC network)
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  There’s a big peer to peer market, fwiw

sytelus 4y ago

At present no major currency is backed by anything material but trust. USD, for example, is only viable because, at the deepest level, trust in it is enforced by US army. There are three major class of people who need digital currency: (1) who are super rich and won't care about putting their 1% of wealth for "diversify and forget", (2) who need to transfer money eyes off from governments, (3) people who need alternative to be manipulated away from US fed. As long as there exist a group of people needing digital currency there is an intrinsic value assigned to that currency.

polrjoy 4y ago
Chinese yuan is economically backed by state owned companies that routinely sell essential goods and services at below market prices when they otherwise would rise too fast.
ummonk 4y ago
If the crypto-bros had a militia as powerful as the US army then perhaps crypto would be worth something.
CaptainZapp 4y ago
> At present no major currency is backed by anything material but trust. While this is true in theory I trust the Swiss National Bank (in my case) significantly more than all those two bit shysters running crypto exchanges, while being extremely economical with the truth in all their communications.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jonstewart 4y ago
> trust in it is enforced by the US army That's not exactly "absolutely nothing", to use the parent's phrase.
sgt101 4y ago
At it's deepest level the $ is viable because of the consent of the people of the USA. The US Army isn't either capable of enforcing law in the USA or exercising influence out of the USA without that consent.

buitreVirtual 4y ago

Storing wealth means that you can get your wealth out later. In this case, people are just giving it away.