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Whenever news like these are discussed here in HN I get flabbergasted by the amount of technical mumbo-jumbo you guys are able to throw around in the comments.

Whenever news like these are discussed here in HN I get flabbergasted by the amount of technical mumbo-jumbo you guys are able to throw around in the comments. It is genuinely impressive how much deep technical knowledge you have about this. I wonder if there is really no other place you could apply this? Like, what is the point of having all this deep technical knowledge about two hundred different fake coins (and their complex economic-engineering interplay) when there isn’t place in the real world even for the largest one?

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
I once played a very sophisticated online mmporg ... the amount of information I possessed about all the skills and equipments dwarfs that of cryptobros) Let them play)
GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
Also, despite people having deep knowledge of these coins / cryptocurrencies, absolutely zero awareness of timeless financial scams.
ouid 4y ago
Put a pigeon in a box and hook up a lever to give a reward after a random amount of time has passed, and the pigeon will go absolutely fucking insane trying to figure it out.
TomSwirly 4y ago
People memorize the Bible and the Quran.
deanCommie 4y ago
I mean what you're describing is the central core of the grift. Complex sounding technical mumbo-jumbo delivered with supreme confidence and seeming internal consistency is how you convince the plebs to invest their life savings in various forms of crypto. 0.1% understand the original underlying technology 0.9% understands the applications possible to be built on top of it 99% are following the 1% and writing governmental and financial policy, and voting with their wallets. I wish I could say we will look back and shake our heads at it like we do today at Tulip Mania, but I suspect we're watching the birth and childhood of a new religion. Crypto isn't going anywhere for the rest of our lives, and just as we have to keep vigilantly fighting against Scientology permeating tax policy, or religion in general always attempting to undermine secular society, Crypto will continue to be a thorn in society for a long time.
- cbtacy 4y ago
  ding ding ding! we have a winner!!!
- asdajksah2123 4y ago
  Usual disclaimers: Blockchain is a real technology and crypto currencies have uses, both of which are a tiny fraction of what their backers claim. Take away the hyperbole and technical mumbo jumbo interlaced with the financial mumbo jumbo, and cryptocurrencies and blockchain are less interesting than the latest PostgreSQL update. But it's that mumbo jumbo that separates ordinary people from their dollars.
  - low_tech_love 4y ago
    Yeah, I wasn’t really talking about the technology itself. You’re absolutely correct. I was talking more about the financial engineering side.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
Edit: Deleting this comment because way too many people attacking me who have clearly never actually used any decentralized app. Good luck to you all!
- chinathrow 4y ago
  > Edit: Deleting this comment because way too many people attacking me who have clearly never actually used any decentralized app. Wow, that was unexpected. Taking criticism for boasting about gaining money in a gamble (you said luck was involved) and then weaseling out....
- Lionga 4y ago
  I gamble in the lottery and won! You just need to gamble a bit more to also win the lottery. Never give up!
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    I have no illusions that it was skill. It was largely luck. But 2021 was a time when the casino was giving away money for free. NOT gambling was the wrong move. Sitting on a high horse did nothing for anyone, except maybe bask in the schadenfreude when the thing invariably collapses. Meanwhile lots of people, including me, made life changing money.
    - chinathrow 4y ago
      > Meanwhile lots of people, including me, made life changing money. This is so backward. Meanwhile lots of people, not including you, lost a lot of money.
    - JohnAaronNelson 4y ago
      You said you have “mid five figures left” so less than 100k. Is that life changing? Or more like “I got a new Audi” or “I was able to reno my kitchen”. Also how much time did you spend on it? Sounds like you went deep down the rabbit hole.
twelve40 4y ago
Both of these organizations (FTX and Binance) are/were making billions flipping useless bits and feeding on people's greed. If both of them are gone tomorrow, the world would not even notice. When the FTX dude's face was plastered on every bus stop in San Francisco (in a wildly narcissistic PR attempt I guess?) I was shocked at how idiotic this cheap money wave has become, someone who's enriching themselves by letting people trade one "token" for another is hailed as the next Einstein. Well, turns out he couldn't even scam people properly and somehow has managed to blow through it all.
- oldgradstudent 4y ago
  > Both of these organizations (FTX and Binance) are/were making billions flipping useless bits and feeding on people's greed. Turns out FTX wasn't making billions. It was losing billions while pretending to be making billions.
- laserlight 4y ago
  > someone who's enriching themselves by letting people trade one "token" for another is hailed as the next Einstein This is the sad part IMHO. A guy who should be regarded as enemy of the people is instead regarded highly just because they happened to win a lottery.
  - low_tech_love 4y ago
    I think about this all the time. First of all it’s not really a lottery, right; it’s worse. Anyone can win a lottery. This is specifically using your smart mind to step on someone else’s heads. But the main point is: what kind of weird twisted fantasy have we put ourselves into? I see genuinely smart (like world-level smart) people arguing 100% seriously that speculating for a fake, useless bitmoney is the same a speculating in the stock market. I mean have we really just completely lost track of what the economy is all about? For some reason I’m thinking about tiktok now and I guess I’ll just have a beer and sleep.
jkepler 4y ago
> ... when there isn’t place in the real world even for the largest one? Uh, go visit El Salvador. Every MacDonalds, every Starbucks, and tons of local businesses accept "the largest one." That's because bitcoin stands apart, in terms of its real decentralization, and therefore its independence and utility. Give it time, and it will become far more useful than it already is. The dollar may eventually refer not to a specific weight of gold (that's what the term 'dollar' originally meant), but to a specific number of satoshis.
- MrRadar 4y ago
  Business in El Salvador do not accept Bitcoin because it is superior (or even equivalent) to fiat, but because they are forced to by the government. I do not see how that is a point in favor of Bitcoin having a place in this world.
- czhu12 4y ago
  Uninformed on this, but if thats true does that mean that a $3 starbucks coffee paid for in bitcoin would incur a $1 bitcoin network fee? So likes 33% more expensive? Or is there some system that el salvador developed that acts as a clearinghouse?
  - MrRadar 4y ago
    El Salvador has their own national wallet app called Chivo. I would be surprised if El Salvadorans regularly use the actual Bitcoin blockchain (as opposed to just shuffling BTC between Chivo accounts) due to the huge and inflexible fees for on-chain transactions.
  - ruiseal 4y ago
    On chain fees are usually not more than $0.50 but if you paid on-chain (regular bitcoin transaction) then you'd be paying that (and have to wait 10 minutes for the confirmation). But most transactional purchases are done on lightning, a layer 2 system, which are virtually instant and very low in fees (like a cent or two).
- anderskaseorg 4y ago
seydor 4y ago
Mumbo jumbo opaqueness helps to sustain the bubble. You can paint all the technicals of the world on crypto, in reality it is an emotional rollercoaster that hinges on the sociology and demographics of genz
squokko 4y ago
1) A lot of people learned about this stuff to make money with it, which many of them did 2) A lot of people learned about this stuff because it is a very meme-able concept: mathematicians will upend the entire global system of power with... math. The kids who got their lunch money stolen in elementary school really gravitated to it
itronitron 4y ago
It's either that or Pokemon.
HyperSane 4y ago
all this Web3 with thousands of different cryptocoins/tokens and DAOs feels like an attempt to intentionally obfuscate finance.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago

I once played a very sophisticated online mmporg ... the amount of information I possessed about all the skills and equipments dwarfs that of cryptobros) Let them play)

GaryNumanVevo 4y ago

Also, despite people having deep knowledge of these coins / cryptocurrencies, absolutely zero awareness of timeless financial scams.

ouid 4y ago

Put a pigeon in a box and hook up a lever to give a reward after a random amount of time has passed, and the pigeon will go absolutely fucking insane trying to figure it out.

TomSwirly 4y ago

People memorize the Bible and the Quran.

deanCommie 4y ago

I mean what you're describing is the central core of the grift. Complex sounding technical mumbo-jumbo delivered with supreme confidence and seeming internal consistency is how you convince the plebs to invest their life savings in various forms of crypto. 0.1% understand the original underlying technology 0.9% understands the applications possible to be built on top of it 99% are following the 1% and writing governmental and financial policy, and voting with their wallets. I wish I could say we will look back and shake our heads at it like we do today at Tulip Mania, but I suspect we're watching the birth and childhood of a new religion. Crypto isn't going anywhere for the rest of our lives, and just as we have to keep vigilantly fighting against Scientology permeating tax policy, or religion in general always attempting to undermine secular society, Crypto will continue to be a thorn in society for a long time.

cbtacy 4y ago
ding ding ding! we have a winner!!!
asdajksah2123 4y ago
Usual disclaimers: Blockchain is a real technology and crypto currencies have uses, both of which are a tiny fraction of what their backers claim. Take away the hyperbole and technical mumbo jumbo interlaced with the financial mumbo jumbo, and cryptocurrencies and blockchain are less interesting than the latest PostgreSQL update. But it's that mumbo jumbo that separates ordinary people from their dollars.
- low_tech_love 4y ago
  Yeah, I wasn’t really talking about the technology itself. You’re absolutely correct. I was talking more about the financial engineering side.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Edit: Deleting this comment because way too many people attacking me who have clearly never actually used any decentralized app. Good luck to you all!

chinathrow 4y ago
> Edit: Deleting this comment because way too many people attacking me who have clearly never actually used any decentralized app. Wow, that was unexpected. Taking criticism for boasting about gaining money in a gamble (you said luck was involved) and then weaseling out....
Lionga 4y ago
I gamble in the lottery and won! You just need to gamble a bit more to also win the lottery. Never give up!
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  I have no illusions that it was skill. It was largely luck. But 2021 was a time when the casino was giving away money for free. NOT gambling was the wrong move. Sitting on a high horse did nothing for anyone, except maybe bask in the schadenfreude when the thing invariably collapses. Meanwhile lots of people, including me, made life changing money.
  - chinathrow 4y ago
    > Meanwhile lots of people, including me, made life changing money. This is so backward. Meanwhile lots of people, not including you, lost a lot of money.
  - JohnAaronNelson 4y ago
    You said you have “mid five figures left” so less than 100k. Is that life changing? Or more like “I got a new Audi” or “I was able to reno my kitchen”. Also how much time did you spend on it? Sounds like you went deep down the rabbit hole.

twelve40 4y ago

Both of these organizations (FTX and Binance) are/were making billions flipping useless bits and feeding on people's greed. If both of them are gone tomorrow, the world would not even notice. When the FTX dude's face was plastered on every bus stop in San Francisco (in a wildly narcissistic PR attempt I guess?) I was shocked at how idiotic this cheap money wave has become, someone who's enriching themselves by letting people trade one "token" for another is hailed as the next Einstein. Well, turns out he couldn't even scam people properly and somehow has managed to blow through it all.

oldgradstudent 4y ago
> Both of these organizations (FTX and Binance) are/were making billions flipping useless bits and feeding on people's greed. Turns out FTX wasn't making billions. It was losing billions while pretending to be making billions.
laserlight 4y ago
> someone who's enriching themselves by letting people trade one "token" for another is hailed as the next Einstein This is the sad part IMHO. A guy who should be regarded as enemy of the people is instead regarded highly just because they happened to win a lottery.
- low_tech_love 4y ago
  I think about this all the time. First of all it’s not really a lottery, right; it’s worse. Anyone can win a lottery. This is specifically using your smart mind to step on someone else’s heads. But the main point is: what kind of weird twisted fantasy have we put ourselves into? I see genuinely smart (like world-level smart) people arguing 100% seriously that speculating for a fake, useless bitmoney is the same a speculating in the stock market. I mean have we really just completely lost track of what the economy is all about? For some reason I’m thinking about tiktok now and I guess I’ll just have a beer and sleep.

jkepler 4y ago

> ... when there isn’t place in the real world even for the largest one? Uh, go visit El Salvador. Every MacDonalds, every Starbucks, and tons of local businesses accept "the largest one." That's because bitcoin stands apart, in terms of its real decentralization, and therefore its independence and utility. Give it time, and it will become far more useful than it already is. The dollar may eventually refer not to a specific weight of gold (that's what the term 'dollar' originally meant), but to a specific number of satoshis.

MrRadar 4y ago
Business in El Salvador do not accept Bitcoin because it is superior (or even equivalent) to fiat, but because they are forced to by the government. I do not see how that is a point in favor of Bitcoin having a place in this world.
czhu12 4y ago
Uninformed on this, but if thats true does that mean that a $3 starbucks coffee paid for in bitcoin would incur a $1 bitcoin network fee? So likes 33% more expensive? Or is there some system that el salvador developed that acts as a clearinghouse?
- MrRadar 4y ago
  El Salvador has their own national wallet app called Chivo. I would be surprised if El Salvadorans regularly use the actual Bitcoin blockchain (as opposed to just shuffling BTC between Chivo accounts) due to the huge and inflexible fees for on-chain transactions.
- ruiseal 4y ago
  On chain fees are usually not more than $0.50 but if you paid on-chain (regular bitcoin transaction) then you'd be paying that (and have to wait 10 minutes for the confirmation). But most transactional purchases are done on lightning, a layer 2 system, which are virtually instant and very low in fees (like a cent or two).
anderskaseorg 4y ago

seydor 4y ago

Mumbo jumbo opaqueness helps to sustain the bubble. You can paint all the technicals of the world on crypto, in reality it is an emotional rollercoaster that hinges on the sociology and demographics of genz

squokko 4y ago

1) A lot of people learned about this stuff to make money with it, which many of them did 2) A lot of people learned about this stuff because it is a very meme-able concept: mathematicians will upend the entire global system of power with... math. The kids who got their lunch money stolen in elementary school really gravitated to it

itronitron 4y ago

It's either that or Pokemon.

HyperSane 4y ago

all this Web3 with thousands of different cryptocoins/tokens and DAOs feels like an attempt to intentionally obfuscate finance.