4 ms·

Can someone ELI5 what has happened here?

by tyho 4y ago

pain_perdu 4y ago
I would also love to see a simple explanation.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
b0sk 4y ago
ELI5: they call themselves “exchanges”. they are more like banks. liquidity crunch means they don’t have money to pay back all the customers. real bank - fdic protected for people. maybe fed govt bailout ftx - bailed out by competitor Binance
mjr00 4y ago
To the best of my understanding, - starting state had FTX as insolvent, but had enough money to cover the withdrawals of their token (FTT) - Binance CEO announces that they're going to dump all of their FTT because they don't trust the stability of it - now there's a bank run, and people are making enough withdrawals to expose that FTX is insolvent - FTX pauses withdrawals (because they don't have the cash) - Binance bails out FTX by purchasing it
- skippyboxedhero 4y ago
  The fact that SBF is re-tweeting stuff from the CEO of Alameda Research (his hedge fund) is also a bit confusing. It seems like the hedge fund mainly owns FTT and that is causing a doom loop - https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sa... - https://nitter.nl/i/status/1589264375042707458 https://nitter.nl/i/status/1589264375042707458 I don't understand it either to be clear. I know a little about crypto, a decent amount about finance but it does seem that the problem is not limited to FTX. This might go down as an LTCM. Would be quite nice. Haven't had nerds setting fire to the financial system for a while.
- throwup 4y ago
  Can someone explain why FTX created their own token in the first place? Was it just a way to raise money/distribute equity without dealing with stock market regulations?
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    Yes, it gives you a discount on trading and can be used to buy things from FTX, and it was originally a fundraising mechanism.
  - rnk 4y ago
    Why does anyone create their own token? Once you get people using it, then you can just "print more" and make yourself incredibly rich. Creating wealth out of nothing but people like your foobar token and they will convert other tokens to/from it. You can sell it to sell fake equity (without usual oversight) in a company too.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
FTX bet customer funds through the CEO’s hedge fund on an FTX token [1]. The token price fell when this was revealed [2]. The hedge fund, and thus FTX, had less money than they owed lenders and customers. FTX found a bail-out in Binance; otherwise everyone would have lost their money. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sa... [2] https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2022/11/08/ftt-plummets-as-market-fears-possible-alameda-contagion/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2022/11/08/ftt-plummets-as-...
- koolba 4y ago
  > otherwise everyone would have lost their money. It's a bit early to speculate on this one.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > bit early to speculate on this We’ve seen the balance sheet. The facts have been on the table for FTX as much as they are for Tether. I can’t say when they will fail. But as soon as we saw the Alameda books and Alameda and FTX’s responses (the former, an irrelevant statement about other assets; the latter, a claim of solvency without proof), the endpoint was sealed. Insolvent, leveraged entities don’t pay out junior creditors absent a bail-out.
    - radlad 4y ago
      I think the parent was pointing out that this is just an intent to acquire and could fall through.
      - koolba 4y ago
        And looks like it did.
- shawabawa3 4y ago
  What it actually revealed that they embezzled customer funds? It's still speculation as far as I can tell (your sources say nothing about customer funds)
sergiotapia 4y ago
Best I found - https://twitter.com/LynAldenContact/status/1590063257158811648 https://twitter.com/LynAldenContact/status/15900632571588116...: Imagine McDonald's makes its own money, let's call them clown-bucks, keeps most of it, and sells some to the market. McDonald's then uses their remaining clown-bucks as collateral for actual loans. And then people remember clown-bucks aren't real. And then Starbucks comes and market sells the clown-bucks they were holding, while reminding the market that clown-bucks aren't really a thing. McDonald's balance sheet is trashed, with their clown-bucks wiped out. Anyway, that's what happened in crypto-land this week. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhEKHDuVIAUfg7g?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhEKHDuVIAUfg7g?format=jpg&name=...

Can someone ELI5 what has happened here?

by tyho 4y ago

Can someone ELI5 what has happened here?

pain_perdu 4y ago

I would also love to see a simple explanation.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

b0sk 4y ago

ELI5: they call themselves “exchanges”. they are more like banks. liquidity crunch means they don’t have money to pay back all the customers. real bank - fdic protected for people. maybe fed govt bailout ftx - bailed out by competitor Binance

mjr00 4y ago

To the best of my understanding, - starting state had FTX as insolvent, but had enough money to cover the withdrawals of their token (FTT) - Binance CEO announces that they're going to dump all of their FTT because they don't trust the stability of it - now there's a bank run, and people are making enough withdrawals to expose that FTX is insolvent - FTX pauses withdrawals (because they don't have the cash) - Binance bails out FTX by purchasing it

skippyboxedhero 4y ago
The fact that SBF is re-tweeting stuff from the CEO of Alameda Research (his hedge fund) is also a bit confusing. It seems like the hedge fund mainly owns FTT and that is causing a doom loop - https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sa... - https://nitter.nl/i/status/1589264375042707458 https://nitter.nl/i/status/1589264375042707458 I don't understand it either to be clear. I know a little about crypto, a decent amount about finance but it does seem that the problem is not limited to FTX. This might go down as an LTCM. Would be quite nice. Haven't had nerds setting fire to the financial system for a while.
throwup 4y ago
Can someone explain why FTX created their own token in the first place? Was it just a way to raise money/distribute equity without dealing with stock market regulations?
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  Yes, it gives you a discount on trading and can be used to buy things from FTX, and it was originally a fundraising mechanism.
- rnk 4y ago
  Why does anyone create their own token? Once you get people using it, then you can just "print more" and make yourself incredibly rich. Creating wealth out of nothing but people like your foobar token and they will convert other tokens to/from it. You can sell it to sell fake equity (without usual oversight) in a company too.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

FTX bet customer funds through the CEO’s hedge fund on an FTX token [1]. The token price fell when this was revealed [2]. The hedge fund, and thus FTX, had less money than they owed lenders and customers. FTX found a bail-out in Binance; otherwise everyone would have lost their money. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sa... [2] https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2022/11/08/ftt-plummets-as-market-fears-possible-alameda-contagion/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2022/11/08/ftt-plummets-as-...

koolba 4y ago
> otherwise everyone would have lost their money. It's a bit early to speculate on this one.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > bit early to speculate on this We’ve seen the balance sheet. The facts have been on the table for FTX as much as they are for Tether. I can’t say when they will fail. But as soon as we saw the Alameda books and Alameda and FTX’s responses (the former, an irrelevant statement about other assets; the latter, a claim of solvency without proof), the endpoint was sealed. Insolvent, leveraged entities don’t pay out junior creditors absent a bail-out.
  - radlad 4y ago
    I think the parent was pointing out that this is just an intent to acquire and could fall through.
    - koolba 4y ago
      And looks like it did.
shawabawa3 4y ago
What it actually revealed that they embezzled customer funds? It's still speculation as far as I can tell (your sources say nothing about customer funds)

sergiotapia 4y ago

Best I found - https://twitter.com/LynAldenContact/status/1590063257158811648 https://twitter.com/LynAldenContact/status/15900632571588116...: Imagine McDonald's makes its own money, let's call them clown-bucks, keeps most of it, and sells some to the market. McDonald's then uses their remaining clown-bucks as collateral for actual loans. And then people remember clown-bucks aren't real. And then Starbucks comes and market sells the clown-bucks they were holding, while reminding the market that clown-bucks aren't really a thing. McDonald's balance sheet is trashed, with their clown-bucks wiped out. Anyway, that's what happened in crypto-land this week. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhEKHDuVIAUfg7g?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhEKHDuVIAUfg7g?format=jpg&name=...