5 ms·

> Even if FTX has stopped withdrawals, it does not necessarily mean they are insolvent. Listen to yourself.

by somuchfordonor 4y ago

Scoundreller 4y ago
I’m still trying to decide if stopping withdrawals is smoke, or is the fire.
- joyfylbanana 4y ago
  It is fairly common for exchanges to have (short) pauses in withdrawals. The majority of funds are in a cold storage, and for security reasons it usually takes some time to get the funds out from there "live". If lot of people are withdrawing at once, it would cause minor inconvenience to any exchange. They have to transfer funds from cold storage, and that takes time. It is almost impossible to determine if an exchange is solvent or not until you know their cold storage addresses.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Stopping withdrawals is definitely a fire if cold storage addresses are a mystery.
- asdajksah2123 4y ago
  The cryptocons will assure us that it's actually unicorn farts.
- somuchfordonor 4y ago
  Well it turned out to be fire.
323 4y ago
If the ATM Cash Machine stops withdrawals because it's out of money it doesn't mean that the bank which owns it is insolvent. Even if you go to a bank branch, large withdrawals ($100k+) need to be announced days in advance, they will not give you the money on the spot.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- somuchfordonor 4y ago
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Let's break this down. If you're FTX, you don't have ATMs. You have a digital teller system that is leveraged against your own liquidity. If you fail to go liquid, one of the first things you'll stop doing is liquidating other people's transactions. This is a problem, because it creates an adversarial relationship between the currency-holders and the exchange managing their funds. Making matters worse, cryptocurrency is not a bank branch. Large transactions can happen on-chain without announcing anything to anyone, the bottleneck only hits once you try liquidating funds you don't own. Maybe you're right, and FTX has fallen on some bad times. Whatever the case may be, this is entirely their problem and one of many hundred issues that crop up when you create custodial crypto systems. I hope they continue to fail and remind everyone how P2P currency is meant to be distributed.
  - joyfylbanana 4y ago
    I don't really get what you are talking about. Any sane custodial system has "hot" funds from where customers withdrawals are processed from. When the "hot wallet" drops too low, it is refilled from "cold storage" which is high security offline storage, and usually way slower to get funds out of because humans are involved in the process. If business is going as usual, customers don't see anything, because hot wallet funds are kept at acceptable levels. Not too high, because you don't want to have too much funds online in a case a hack happens. Not too low, because you want customer withdrawals to function. However, if some kind of panic happens and people start withdrawing a lot at once, then you will always have delays, assuming that you have a sane system.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      The problem is that even your "sane" system will consistently fail to be appropriately liquid, even when compared to traditional finance. Exchanges are a liability being thrown into the mix, and since the cold/hot funds aren't regulated they could frankly be spent on anything. Their cold wallet could be tied up in the speculation market or being leveraged against lenders. Every one of these exchanges has every incentive to operate against the user's wishes, at the end of the day. Exchanges simply don't work. The comparison between them and banks ignores the surrounding regulation and guarantees that banks are obligated to issue you. Are my FTX holdings FDIC insured?

> Even if FTX has stopped withdrawals, it does not necessarily mean they are insolvent. Listen to yourself.

Scoundreller 4y ago

I’m still trying to decide if stopping withdrawals is smoke, or is the fire.

joyfylbanana 4y ago
It is fairly common for exchanges to have (short) pauses in withdrawals. The majority of funds are in a cold storage, and for security reasons it usually takes some time to get the funds out from there "live". If lot of people are withdrawing at once, it would cause minor inconvenience to any exchange. They have to transfer funds from cold storage, and that takes time. It is almost impossible to determine if an exchange is solvent or not until you know their cold storage addresses.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Stopping withdrawals is definitely a fire if cold storage addresses are a mystery.
asdajksah2123 4y ago
The cryptocons will assure us that it's actually unicorn farts.
somuchfordonor 4y ago
Well it turned out to be fire.

323 4y ago

If the ATM Cash Machine stops withdrawals because it's out of money it doesn't mean that the bank which owns it is insolvent. Even if you go to a bank branch, large withdrawals ($100k+) need to be announced days in advance, they will not give you the money on the spot.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
somuchfordonor 4y ago
smoldesu 4y ago
Let's break this down. If you're FTX, you don't have ATMs. You have a digital teller system that is leveraged against your own liquidity. If you fail to go liquid, one of the first things you'll stop doing is liquidating other people's transactions. This is a problem, because it creates an adversarial relationship between the currency-holders and the exchange managing their funds. Making matters worse, cryptocurrency is not a bank branch. Large transactions can happen on-chain without announcing anything to anyone, the bottleneck only hits once you try liquidating funds you don't own. Maybe you're right, and FTX has fallen on some bad times. Whatever the case may be, this is entirely their problem and one of many hundred issues that crop up when you create custodial crypto systems. I hope they continue to fail and remind everyone how P2P currency is meant to be distributed.
- joyfylbanana 4y ago
  I don't really get what you are talking about. Any sane custodial system has "hot" funds from where customers withdrawals are processed from. When the "hot wallet" drops too low, it is refilled from "cold storage" which is high security offline storage, and usually way slower to get funds out of because humans are involved in the process. If business is going as usual, customers don't see anything, because hot wallet funds are kept at acceptable levels. Not too high, because you don't want to have too much funds online in a case a hack happens. Not too low, because you want customer withdrawals to function. However, if some kind of panic happens and people start withdrawing a lot at once, then you will always have delays, assuming that you have a sane system.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    The problem is that even your "sane" system will consistently fail to be appropriately liquid, even when compared to traditional finance. Exchanges are a liability being thrown into the mix, and since the cold/hot funds aren't regulated they could frankly be spent on anything. Their cold wallet could be tied up in the speculation market or being leveraged against lenders. Every one of these exchanges has every incentive to operate against the user's wishes, at the end of the day. Exchanges simply don't work. The comparison between them and banks ignores the surrounding regulation and guarantees that banks are obligated to issue you. Are my FTX holdings FDIC insured?