6 ms·

I think we'll discover that the post-vax myocarditis and pericarditis were caused by pre-existing, latent COVID infections. This probably means that there's a l

I think we'll discover that the post-vax myocarditis and pericarditis were caused by pre-existing, latent COVID infections. This probably means that there's a large number of people walking around with completely asymptomatic infections until the body attacks it either because of a vaccination or it finally stumbles across it and generates an immune response.

pstuart 4y ago
A tag-along tangent to that: I'm curious as to the cases where there are adverse reactions to the vaccine, what is the probability/possibility that the individual's response would be comparable if exposed to the virus directly.
nradov 4y ago
Unlikely. Your hypothesis wouldn't explain the significantly higher rate of vaccine induced myocarditis in young males compared to females. Infection rates are similar between the sexes so there must be something else going on.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > significantly The studies I've seen largely indicate that it's insignificantly higher, at most. > vaccine induced There are far too many confounding variables to declare with any sort of honesty that it's "vaccine induced" - even if you could prove correlation (remember: correlation != causation). For example: > young males Gender disparities exist in youth athletics participation, and student athletes are well known to be disproportionately at risk of sudden death from undiagnosed myocarditis (see https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/preventing-sudden-cardiac-arrest-young-athletes https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/preventing-sudden-cardiac-ar... as one information source which predates COVID and the vaccines thereof). Young males being more likely to participate in activities which can cause myocarditis or worsen existing myocarditis would readily explain the gender disparity, in a way that neither infection nor vaccination likely would.
  - nradov 4y ago
    That is nonsense bordering on medical misinformation. Multiple independent studies have established clear causality for vaccine induced myocarditis. The risk is low but it absolutely exists, and the relative difference between males and females can't possibly be explained away by sports participation rates. Come on. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221101/New-analysis-on-the-risk-for-myocarditis-or-pericarditis-after-mRNA-COVID-19-vaccination.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221101/New-analysis-on-t...
    - wrycoder 4y ago
      Here is an autopsy report: A Case Report: Multifocal Necrotizing Encephalitis and Myocarditis after BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccination against COVID-19 [0]. Quoting the abstract: Surprisingly, only spike protein but no nucleocapsid protein could be detected within the foci of inflammation in both the brain and the heart, particularly in the endothelial cells of small blood vessels. Since no nucleocapsid protein could be detected, the presence of spike protein must be ascribed to vaccination rather than to viral infection. [0] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/10/1651 https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/10/1651
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        Also quoting literally the first sentence of the abstract: > The current report presents the case of a 76-year-old man with Parkinson’s disease (PD) who died three weeks after receiving his third COVID-19 vaccination. If I had a nickel for every confounding variable implied by either "76-year-old" or "Parkinson's disease" (let alone both, let alone for a sample size of 1), the Powerball jackpot would look like pocket change.
        wrycoder 4y ago
        Yes, but you need to read the whole paper.
coinbasetwwa 4y ago
m463 4y ago
I can't help but think -- what if it is from people that work from home, don't exercise as much when they went to work, or are getting older post-covid
- scns 4y ago
  It was first observed in Israel iirc, that you can get myocarditis by exercising in the period after the shot. It is the same when you exercise while sick. That might explain why more men where affected too.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    In that case the shot is highly unlikely to be a significant factor, seeing as how exercise-related myocarditis has been a thing since long before COVID was a thing. Demonstrating the vaccine to be a factor would require checking for myocarditis before and after vaccination, and also doing so for the control group. I don't know of any studies which do that, though; usually it's more the other way around: diagnosing myocarditis and correlating that with a past vaccination or infection.

pstuart 4y ago

A tag-along tangent to that: I'm curious as to the cases where there are adverse reactions to the vaccine, what is the probability/possibility that the individual's response would be comparable if exposed to the virus directly.

nradov 4y ago

Unlikely. Your hypothesis wouldn't explain the significantly higher rate of vaccine induced myocarditis in young males compared to females. Infection rates are similar between the sexes so there must be something else going on.

yellowapple 4y ago
> significantly The studies I've seen largely indicate that it's insignificantly higher, at most. > vaccine induced There are far too many confounding variables to declare with any sort of honesty that it's "vaccine induced" - even if you could prove correlation (remember: correlation != causation). For example: > young males Gender disparities exist in youth athletics participation, and student athletes are well known to be disproportionately at risk of sudden death from undiagnosed myocarditis (see https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/preventing-sudden-cardiac-arrest-young-athletes https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/preventing-sudden-cardiac-ar... as one information source which predates COVID and the vaccines thereof). Young males being more likely to participate in activities which can cause myocarditis or worsen existing myocarditis would readily explain the gender disparity, in a way that neither infection nor vaccination likely would.
- nradov 4y ago
  That is nonsense bordering on medical misinformation. Multiple independent studies have established clear causality for vaccine induced myocarditis. The risk is low but it absolutely exists, and the relative difference between males and females can't possibly be explained away by sports participation rates. Come on. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221101/New-analysis-on-the-risk-for-myocarditis-or-pericarditis-after-mRNA-COVID-19-vaccination.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221101/New-analysis-on-t...
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    Here is an autopsy report: A Case Report: Multifocal Necrotizing Encephalitis and Myocarditis after BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccination against COVID-19 [0]. Quoting the abstract: Surprisingly, only spike protein but no nucleocapsid protein could be detected within the foci of inflammation in both the brain and the heart, particularly in the endothelial cells of small blood vessels. Since no nucleocapsid protein could be detected, the presence of spike protein must be ascribed to vaccination rather than to viral infection. [0] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/10/1651 https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/10/1651
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      Also quoting literally the first sentence of the abstract: > The current report presents the case of a 76-year-old man with Parkinson’s disease (PD) who died three weeks after receiving his third COVID-19 vaccination. If I had a nickel for every confounding variable implied by either "76-year-old" or "Parkinson's disease" (let alone both, let alone for a sample size of 1), the Powerball jackpot would look like pocket change.
      - wrycoder 4y ago
        Yes, but you need to read the whole paper.

coinbasetwwa 4y ago

m463 4y ago

I can't help but think -- what if it is from people that work from home, don't exercise as much when they went to work, or are getting older post-covid

scns 4y ago
It was first observed in Israel iirc, that you can get myocarditis by exercising in the period after the shot. It is the same when you exercise while sick. That might explain why more men where affected too.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  In that case the shot is highly unlikely to be a significant factor, seeing as how exercise-related myocarditis has been a thing since long before COVID was a thing. Demonstrating the vaccine to be a factor would require checking for myocarditis before and after vaccination, and also doing so for the control group. I don't know of any studies which do that, though; usually it's more the other way around: diagnosing myocarditis and correlating that with a past vaccination or infection.