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Early stages of Google Docs support in the Ladybird browser
- gjsman-1000 4y ago“Impressive. Most impressive.”
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mananaysiempre 4y agoLink is to a Nitter instance. Even though I prefer to use it as well, it should probably be pointed to the original Twitter instead? For deduplication purposes if nothing else.
- jacooper 4y agoTypo warning!
- pavon 4y agoTo second this, many of the nitter instances and other twitter flattening sites are blocked by corporate security scanning proxies. For those in that situation, note that you can replace the domain name with twitter.com to get the original URL.
- jrochkind1 4y agoSide issue, but why do corporate security scanning proxies block nitter?
- zinekeller 4y agoI'm not personally aware of filters targeting Nitter instances significantly, but I'm aware of whitelisting only the top 10 million sites (blocking "undesired" things of course) and manually asking IT if you are visiting a low-traffic site. This stops a lot of phishing attacks but at the same time only allowing ~9.5 million sites is still too small.
- dang 4y agoYes. Changed now from https://nitter.1d4.us/awesomekling/status/1589711499672502274#m https://nitter.1d4.us/awesomekling/status/158971149967250227.... It's fine to include alternate links in comments, but for the submission URL, please follow the site guideline: "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hopfog 4y agoI love Andreas Kling's "Browser hacking" series on YouTube where he fixes various issues Ladybird has with specific websites. E.g: Fixing a CSS layout bug found by chessboard.js - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMpLiEgKC_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMpLiEgKC_w Let's make "Cookie Clicker" playable in Ladybird! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4SxKWwFhA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4SxKWwFhA0 He's very good at articulating his thought progress and it's always really interesting to see how he reduces the bug down into a minimal reproducible example.
- nonethewiser 4y agoClearly I have no idea what Ladybird browser is. Why should I be impressed? I would expect every browser to be capable of this. EDIT: Lots of great answers. Thanks everyone. Glad this inspired such lively discussion.
- adamrezich 4y agoright, because you expect every browser to just use webkit/chromium
- AlphaCerium 4y agoLadybird is the browser being developed for SerenityOS, the "love letter to '90s user interfaces with a custom Unix-like core"[0] [0] - https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity
- Shared404 4y agoLadybird is a from-scratch browser on a from-scratch OS.
- stephen_g 4y agoWell it is now, but is also more. Originally Ladybird was the cross platform port of the from-scratch browser on a from-scratch OS. If I recall correctly, the browser on Serenity was just called 'Browser', and then Ladybird was created to wrap the LibWeb / LibJS engine from that in a Qt interface that could run on Linux and Mac, and then the Browser program in Serenity was also renamed to Ladybird.
- posnet 4y agoBecause it's actually a new browser, not just a wrapper/reskin around webkit, gecko or blink.
- jacooper 4y ago~~I think its a browser writing by one person.~~ Edit: the point is that its an independent browser, not that its built by just one person
- ramesh31 4y ago*Kind of. More power to them, but modern browsers are one of the most advanced and sophisticated pieces of software in the world, probably right next to an OS. WebKit and Chromium respectively have had billions of dollars and decades of development poured into them. The current duopoly state of the market reflects that fact, unfortunately.
- Decabytes 4y agoI believe Andreas actually worked on WebKit for awhile so he is well aware of how challenging implementing a browser is
- hbn 4y agoFrom the FAQ [1] > Q: Why bother? You can’t make a new browser engine without billions of dollars and hundreds of staff. > Sure you can. Don’t listen to armchair defeatists who never worked on a browser. [1] https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/#faq https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform...
- Y_Y 4y agoOf course WebKit and Blink (Chromium) are both just shitty descendants of the beautiful (and foss) KHTML from Conqueror.
- djbusby 4y ago*Konqueror https://apps.kde.org/en-gb/konqueror/ https://apps.kde.org/en-gb/konqueror/
- dingdingdang 4y agoAbsolutely ace effort, do it for the love of it and great things can happen that would otherwise require mountains of both engineers and bureaucracy!
- pipeline_peak 4y ago
- jdsnape 4y agoI think it being ‘cool’ is entirely the point…
- pipeline_peak 4y agoBeing cool doesn’t last
- Lammy 4y agoNor does life. Have fun building cool stuff while you can!
- 6ad2F2Ui2B8Yx8 4y agono, the point is to have fun programming, while also learning new things.
- jdsnape 4y agoExactly! That’s what I count as cool :)
- nonethewiser 4y agoIt seems like it will only work on SerenityOS, which seems like it explicitly does not support third party software. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that, but that seems like an indication that it wont be much more than a toy. EDIT: I was wrong, this doesn't just run on SerenityOS. Guess it's not limited to being a toy. Thank you everyone for the correction.
- 6ad2F2Ui2B8Yx8 4y agoHe is running the browser natively on linux in that image
- UltraViolence 4y agoI'm so impressed with the LadyBird / SerenityOS browser engine! It took Mozilla more than 25 years to write Firefox's HTML engine and here are a couple of geniuses who write a web browser from scratch in just a few years!! Including Javascript (however, as of yet lacking video and WebGL). And Google's Chromium is simply a convoluted mess, chockful with vulnerabilities and memory corruption errors.
- senko 4y agoI'm a fan of Andreas and love seeing the progress here, but let's be fair: it didn't take Mozilla 25 years to write a HTML engine. It took Netscape 3 years to build the world's best (at the time) browser from scratch ('94 to '97). Chromium's HTML engine derives from an open source KHTML engine, written for the KDE project.
- ossusermivami 4y agoNot trying to diminish this impressive work from Andrew, but I would believe as the saying says those last (ongoing since a browser is never finished) 20% is what take 80% of the time to make a browser.
- londons_explore 4y agoI'm actually pretty impressed with the Chromium source code. For such a huge, old and complex project, I think it is rather impressive. It's a lot better than the Linux kernel for example, another project of similar size/age/complexity.
- senkora 4y agoI think a significant factor in this is that C++ simply has better abstractions for building large codebases than C does. Any big enough C project is gonna turn out a bit funky.
- mhh__ 4y agoFor quite a long time now I have said that the future for the Linux kernel could easily be C++ rather than rust. Rust is very cool and have no issue with it in the kernel tree but C++ would prevent so many bugs and eliminate so many lines of code. It's just ego.
- djha-skin 4y agoBuilding this for the first time on my laptop. Can I just say, they realy thought about the build. Even though they have non-trivial dependencies, the build for those just trying it out is really easy, just four commands.
- danuker 4y agoAs if... it's made to be build-able by third parties, eh? I never managed to build Firefox nor Ungoogled-Chromium. I'll give this new browser a try.
- mdaniel 4y agoI readily admit that cooking the mozconfig is some holy hell, but they do have real-world examples in the repo; did you experience problems at that stage, or it literally wouldn't compile? And while I haven't tried Ungoogled-Chromium, for unrelated reasons I helped an OSS project build their Brave-derivative in a container, so that may interest you: https://github.com/imperviousinc/beacon/blob/main/Dockerfile https://github.com/imperviousinc/beacon/blob/main/Dockerfile The only reason it's not already GitHub Actions for them is the chromium_src is 38GB and GHA cache is capped at 10G, but while digging up the link to that Dockerfile, I was reminded that there is a GHA for the macos build: https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-macos/blob/master/.github/workflows/build.yml https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-mac...
- Gajor444 4y ago[dead]
- dang 4y agoRelated: Github.com on Ladybird, new browser with JavaScript/CSS/SVG engines from scratch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33273785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33273785 - Oct 2022 (1 comment) Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32809126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32809126 - Sept 2022 (473 comments) Ladybird: A truly new Web Browser comes to Linux - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014061 - July 2022 (8 comments) Ladybird Web Browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31987506 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31987506 - July 2022 (2 comments) Ladybird Web Browser – SerenityOS LibWeb Engine on Linux - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31976579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31976579 - July 2022 (2 comments)
- xnx 4y agoIs this using Google Docs new(ish) canvas-based rendering? https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2021/05/Google-Docs-Canvas-Based-Rendering-Update.html https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2021/05/Google-Docs-... Honestly not sure if it's harder to support canvas or DOM based rendering.
- olliej 4y agoWhat do you mean by harder to support? Supporting - in the sense that it works - canvas rendering is much simpler than even minor amounts of the DOM. The problem of course is that you're replacing compiled C++ that is doing the normal DOM/CSS layout and rendering with someone implementing the layout and rendering in JS (sans actual bitblitting, etc).
- tomcam 4y ago> canvas rendering is much simpler than even minor amounts of the DOM How is the accessibility picture?
- olliej 4y agoIf you’re making a site using canvas to render UI elements you are taking it upon yourself to implement a lot of standard functionality yourself, similarly even basic text entry, let alone editing, is much more complex than people seem willing to accept. At google’s size/cash implementing these things might be achievable, but I recall many people/projects over the years that decided to do in canvas rather than using the available engine (often times a belief that their desire for pixel perfect positions was reasonable, and more than made up for needing to draw everything and manage text entry themselves) always looks easy at first glance, typically because the authors don’t use accessibility tools and most who I interacted with were English-first devs who believe one keypress event == one letter. So you end up with yet another English-only (and I really do mean English specifically here, not Western European) and inaccessible rendering engine for a web page, that typically could have achieved 95-100% of what they wanted, with a bunch of the remainder being stuff that doesn’t work for people with accessibility issues.
- svnpenn 4y agonote, native Windows support is not planned: https://github.com/SerenityOS/ladybird/issues/113 https://github.com/SerenityOS/ladybird/issues/113
- nilsb 4y agoWhile technically true it would be more accurate to say that no features are _planned_ in advance and it’s entirely up to individual contributors to decide what they work on.
- sergiotapia 4y agoThat is so remarkable. What a terrific achievement. Remember: This is all from scratch, not even using the Linux Kernel if I recall correctly. Bonkers!!!
- bilekas 4y agoIt's honestly incredible the progress being made by Andreas.. all while also working on an OS. Not only that but the quality of work is incredible too. Really really inspiring.