4 ms·

I like it! Making it more "mainstream" is the way to go even if purists might say that it's feature bloat for their secure messenger. It's similar to how it's

by dewey 4y ago

I like it! Making it more "mainstream" is the way to go even if purists might say that it's feature bloat for their secure messenger. It's similar to how it's good if more people use Tor for all kinds of activities as it doesn't immediately label you as suspicious just because you use Tor or Signal.

Dylan16807 4y ago
Making people juggle a different app for SMS is the opposite of being mainstream friendly.
- Blahah 4y ago
  I use signal for SMS. Is this an iOS thing? If so presumably it's an Apple restriction? edit: ah, they announced recently that they are removing SMS support in Android. The reasoning is solid IMO, I've accidentally sent insecure messages before.
  - dewey 4y ago
    Sounds like an Android thing: https://signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/ https://signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    They can remove the "accidentally" without removing the ability to access as many messages in one place as possible.
  - gwill 4y ago
    how do you use it for sms on ios? their website says they don't support it. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Can-I-send-SMS-MMS-with-Signal-#ios_sms https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Ca...
    - denkmoon 4y ago
      You can't. No alternate SMS apps on ios.
- dewey 4y ago
  Maybe I'm the odd one but I haven't received an SMS in a decade. It's all iMessage, WhatsApp, Telegram and the only SMS are transactional that I receive but never send.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Do Telegram, Whatsapp, FB Messenger, etc support SMS?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    No, because SMS is obsolete and nobody outside of the US(why?!??!) still uses it for anything else other than the occasional confirmation/MFA code.
    - patall 4y ago
      To give a counter example, here in Sweden, SMS&MMS are used quite a lot. Including bidding for housing. And it's not due to a lack of alternatives.
      - lutoma 4y ago
        Okay, but then Sweden is another exception to the norm, not the other way around.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        Indeed I forgot the "I've never met you but need we need to make a transaction for some reason (buying a house or a TV second hand), so let's start with SMS which will work for sure". For anything else, using SMS is like using Notepad to write books. Many better alternatives have come through in the decades since that tech was new.
      - palata 4y ago
        But the same question applies: why? It feels very weird to have both a very good end-to-end encryption (the Signal encrypted messages) and a very bad system (SMS) together in the same app. People should just move away from SMS, it's not like it's hard.
        patall 4y ago
        I have no idea (and not living here long enough). But if I had to guess, it could be that cheap/free SMS texting came before cheap/free mobile internet and thus it was already established.
- extr0pian 4y ago
  I know that Signal announced plans to have accounts based on usernames rather than phone numbers in the past. I wonder if the removal of SMS has something to do with usernames.
- 1MachineElf 4y ago
  On this new Google Pixel 7, the app launcher thing is limited to just 4 apps. Now that I can't use Signal for SMS, it has lost it's convenient spot on my home screen. I find myself using it less, so like you, I'm very displeased about their dropping SMS. The forum thread on Signal's Discourse about the change is full of snide remarks from their moderators, and it's extremely disappointing to see Signal community leaders disparaging their own long-time users over SMS. Turning back on the legacy of TextSecure in this way justifies framing this as a betrayal. All that being said... I still trust Signal's Stories implementation over any other. While I believe they could have competed with SMS-capable apps like iMessage, Google Messages, and Samsung Messages, if pivoting into WhatsApp/Instagram/Snapchat/TikTok territory is what they'd rather do, then I believe they can execute it well.
  - kibwen 4y ago
    Conversely, when Signal drops support for SMS, I expect to stop messaging anyone still on SMS. So far it's been fairly painless getting the people I actually care about to switch, but YMMV. My mom doesn't care if she has to use a separate app to message me.
  - jvolkman 4y ago
    Tangential, but you can change the grid size to 5x5 which lets you have 5 apps in that bar. Settings -> Wallpaper & style -> App grid
    - 1MachineElf 4y ago
      Great, this is just what I needed.
- Vinnl 4y ago
  They didn't have much choice, unfortunately: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms-support-from-signal-android-soon/47954/57 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms...
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    How can there be no RCS API? Eww.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >How can there be no RCS API? Eww. Actually, there is an RCS API. However, Google restricts its use to themselves and specific OEMS only. IIUC, that's currently only Samsung[0]. [0] https://www.xda-developers.com/google-messages-rcs-api-third-party-apps https://www.xda-developers.com/google-messages-rcs-api-third...
      - CameronNemo 4y ago
        Could LineageOS flip a switchand turn it into a free for all? That would be fun and interesting. Not that RCS is a remotely good messaging protocol.
        nobody9999 4y ago
        >Could LineageOS flip a switchand turn it into a free for all? That would be fun and interesting. Not that RCS is a remotely good messaging protocol. IIUC, the RCS API is not part of AOSP[0], and as such, not part of LineageOS. As such, I believe the answer is "no." [0] https://source.android.com/ https://source.android.com/
  - errantmind 4y ago
    They could have supported it until SMS was dead and buried. Also, RCS looks to have an upcoming third-party API, so it was absolutely a choice.
- lutoma 4y ago
  SMS is very rarely used anymore outside of the US and a few select other countries, and for most people Signal and similar messengers serve as a replacement for text messages, not a supplement. It's probably just not a worthwhile market/feature to keep anymore. Come to think of it, I'm having a very hard time coming up with any sensible use case for using Signal over text message. Presumably both sides still need Signal for the encryption to work, so what's the point? Might as well use the internet to send the message. The only scenario I can see it being useful is when you have GSM, but no internet connectivity, and that's rare these days.
  - caf 4y ago
    Signal hasn't supported using SMS as a transport for encrypted messages for years now. The impending change that people are discussing is dropping support for sending and receiving ordinary SMS from non-Signal-using parties.
- dontparticipate 4y ago
  I was only able to convince family to use Signal because they didn't need two apps for messaging. It's pretty much a dead app for me now and the decision makes my conversations profoundly less private and safe.
  - aembleton 4y ago
    Did all of your family members only message you and not each other? I don't understand why they would move away from signal when they were messaging each other using signal. Each one would have several signal contacts. Did they not see any value in signal over SMS? Didn't you have any group chats?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by dewey 4y ago

Dylan16807 4y ago

Making people juggle a different app for SMS is the opposite of being mainstream friendly.

Blahah 4y ago
I use signal for SMS. Is this an iOS thing? If so presumably it's an Apple restriction? edit: ah, they announced recently that they are removing SMS support in Android. The reasoning is solid IMO, I've accidentally sent insecure messages before.
- dewey 4y ago
  Sounds like an Android thing: https://signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/ https://signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  They can remove the "accidentally" without removing the ability to access as many messages in one place as possible.
- gwill 4y ago
  how do you use it for sms on ios? their website says they don't support it. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Can-I-send-SMS-MMS-with-Signal-#ios_sms https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Ca...
  - denkmoon 4y ago
    You can't. No alternate SMS apps on ios.
dewey 4y ago
Maybe I'm the odd one but I haven't received an SMS in a decade. It's all iMessage, WhatsApp, Telegram and the only SMS are transactional that I receive but never send.
barbazoo 4y ago
Do Telegram, Whatsapp, FB Messenger, etc support SMS?
- sofixa 4y ago
  No, because SMS is obsolete and nobody outside of the US(why?!??!) still uses it for anything else other than the occasional confirmation/MFA code.
  - patall 4y ago
    To give a counter example, here in Sweden, SMS&MMS are used quite a lot. Including bidding for housing. And it's not due to a lack of alternatives.
    - lutoma 4y ago
      Okay, but then Sweden is another exception to the norm, not the other way around.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Indeed I forgot the "I've never met you but need we need to make a transaction for some reason (buying a house or a TV second hand), so let's start with SMS which will work for sure". For anything else, using SMS is like using Notepad to write books. Many better alternatives have come through in the decades since that tech was new.
    - palata 4y ago
      But the same question applies: why? It feels very weird to have both a very good end-to-end encryption (the Signal encrypted messages) and a very bad system (SMS) together in the same app. People should just move away from SMS, it's not like it's hard.
      - patall 4y ago
        I have no idea (and not living here long enough). But if I had to guess, it could be that cheap/free SMS texting came before cheap/free mobile internet and thus it was already established.
extr0pian 4y ago
I know that Signal announced plans to have accounts based on usernames rather than phone numbers in the past. I wonder if the removal of SMS has something to do with usernames.
1MachineElf 4y ago
On this new Google Pixel 7, the app launcher thing is limited to just 4 apps. Now that I can't use Signal for SMS, it has lost it's convenient spot on my home screen. I find myself using it less, so like you, I'm very displeased about their dropping SMS. The forum thread on Signal's Discourse about the change is full of snide remarks from their moderators, and it's extremely disappointing to see Signal community leaders disparaging their own long-time users over SMS. Turning back on the legacy of TextSecure in this way justifies framing this as a betrayal. All that being said... I still trust Signal's Stories implementation over any other. While I believe they could have competed with SMS-capable apps like iMessage, Google Messages, and Samsung Messages, if pivoting into WhatsApp/Instagram/Snapchat/TikTok territory is what they'd rather do, then I believe they can execute it well.
- kibwen 4y ago
  Conversely, when Signal drops support for SMS, I expect to stop messaging anyone still on SMS. So far it's been fairly painless getting the people I actually care about to switch, but YMMV. My mom doesn't care if she has to use a separate app to message me.
- jvolkman 4y ago
  Tangential, but you can change the grid size to 5x5 which lets you have 5 apps in that bar. Settings -> Wallpaper & style -> App grid
  - 1MachineElf 4y ago
    Great, this is just what I needed.
Vinnl 4y ago
They didn't have much choice, unfortunately: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms-support-from-signal-android-soon/47954/57 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms...
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  How can there be no RCS API? Eww.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >How can there be no RCS API? Eww. Actually, there is an RCS API. However, Google restricts its use to themselves and specific OEMS only. IIUC, that's currently only Samsung[0]. [0] https://www.xda-developers.com/google-messages-rcs-api-third-party-apps https://www.xda-developers.com/google-messages-rcs-api-third...
    - CameronNemo 4y ago
      Could LineageOS flip a switchand turn it into a free for all? That would be fun and interesting. Not that RCS is a remotely good messaging protocol.
      - nobody9999 4y ago
        >Could LineageOS flip a switchand turn it into a free for all? That would be fun and interesting. Not that RCS is a remotely good messaging protocol. IIUC, the RCS API is not part of AOSP[0], and as such, not part of LineageOS. As such, I believe the answer is "no." [0] https://source.android.com/ https://source.android.com/
- errantmind 4y ago
  They could have supported it until SMS was dead and buried. Also, RCS looks to have an upcoming third-party API, so it was absolutely a choice.
lutoma 4y ago
SMS is very rarely used anymore outside of the US and a few select other countries, and for most people Signal and similar messengers serve as a replacement for text messages, not a supplement. It's probably just not a worthwhile market/feature to keep anymore. Come to think of it, I'm having a very hard time coming up with any sensible use case for using Signal over text message. Presumably both sides still need Signal for the encryption to work, so what's the point? Might as well use the internet to send the message. The only scenario I can see it being useful is when you have GSM, but no internet connectivity, and that's rare these days.
- caf 4y ago
  Signal hasn't supported using SMS as a transport for encrypted messages for years now. The impending change that people are discussing is dropping support for sending and receiving ordinary SMS from non-Signal-using parties.
dontparticipate 4y ago
I was only able to convince family to use Signal because they didn't need two apps for messaging. It's pretty much a dead app for me now and the decision makes my conversations profoundly less private and safe.
- aembleton 4y ago
  Did all of your family members only message you and not each other? I don't understand why they would move away from signal when they were messaging each other using signal. Each one would have several signal contacts. Did they not see any value in signal over SMS? Didn't you have any group chats?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]