5 ms·

The timing of this information suggests that while it may be true, its very disclosure may also be meddling in foreign elections -- i.e. casting doubt on their

The timing of this information suggests that while it may be true, its very disclosure may also be meddling in foreign elections -- i.e. casting doubt on their legitimacy helps many within the US who are actively trying to propagate that narrative. EDIT: A word

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> it's very disclosure may also be meddling in foreign elections As other comments have mentioned, this is more likely posturing in anticipation of an internal power struggle.
- marviel 4y ago
  Very possibly both.
it_citizen 4y ago
Russian interference is a pretty one sided thing. If it happened, it was to Trump benefit. Such declaration will be dismissed by conservatives as Democrat narrative. And democrats will just get comforted in their position. Russia would be stupid to say anything that would help democrats. They would be much better off with a republican house and senate. I think there are smarter things to say if they wanted to muddy the waters.
- lijogdfljk 4y ago
  I've seen that narrative in Conservative circles. However i've seen just about everything over there, so it's really difficult for me to know what is "sticking" and what is just clumps of people agreeing to random things. Ie what i'm referencing is more than just a single comment, it was many in agreement; but i've tended to see these "pockets of fringe" where in any larger thread i can expect to see just about anything being discussed and agreed upon. Makes it really hard to discern larger beliefs.
- matwood 4y ago
  I think you're thinking short term. I don't think Russia cares democrat or republican, they want exactly what's happening - lack of confidence in the election process. Trump benefitted because he's reading from the same playbook - push a lack of confidence in the election process. From Russia's standpoint, they can't take down the US. The US can certainly destroy itself from the inside though. If we assume the GOP is already questioning all election results, then this most recent comment from Russia will bring more of the left in to question the results. When everyone questions the results, the US has a big problem.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    You think Russia has no preferences between option a) party that has been providing Ukraine with weapons systems that are demolishing their military and option b) party that has vowed to end all aid to Ukraine? Really? The war in Ukraine is obviously the #1 most important, most critical issue for Putin right now. It is as close to do-or-die as a dictatorial nationstate can get and the situation is getting worse by the day for Russia.
    - factsarelolz 4y ago
      > Really? If someone were to believe what you're saying is true then Putin would have invaded Ukraine under a Republican President, Trump. Russia only seems to fuck with Ukraine when a Democrat is President. Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        > Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Wait so... why would he? Considering this is exactly what he did? Could it be that there are other components to a decision to invade than merely who is in power halfway around the world? There's nothing incompatible with this and the idea they he'd prefer Trump, or any NATO-withdrawing and foreign-aid withholding party, in power.
- prox 4y ago
  It is already well documented that while part of what you say is true (favouring maga gop) that sowing the divisions in any way, shape or form is a goal is also true. Source : actual kgb agents who did this[0] 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5WjRjz5mTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5WjRjz5mTU
- kube-system 4y ago
  It is officially documented that Russia's campaigns have supported varying ideologies. While they do have some preference for foreign policy, it is also in their interest to increase division.
- Haga 4y ago
yrgulation 4y ago
I doubt russia has any interest in swaying results in democrats favour. If anything republicans have already said they would reduce sent to ukraine. To win, putin needs a few weeks or months of ukraine undersupply.
- marviel 4y ago
  While I agree that the findings would be "Putin helped the Right by meddling in foreign elections" -- the ability to plant the idea "your elections should not be trusted" may on-balance make it irrelevant to Russia's ends which party the meddling was initially associated with. The events of January 6th make it evident that many on the right are of the belief that elections are no longer free or fair. All that is to say it's kind of ironic. If I'm correct, the information that Putin helped the right by meddling, will be reduced and spun by many outlets to go from "there was meddling in our elections that helped the right" into just "our elections are untrustworthy".
this_user 4y ago
That is what a lot of people are missing with this: The goal of Russian propaganda has always been to create chaos and get people to disengage by creating a feeling that nothing is true, or at least that the truth is unknowable. Hence the constant stream of extremely transparent lies and BS. In other words, the point of their election interference is not primarily to manipulate the election successfully, but to create the belief that they did.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bjhartin 4y ago
  This. What a powerful tool - try to get people to believe what you want, but if you fail, steer the landing so it just further adds to the confusion, rather than being evidence of dishonesty.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> it's very disclosure may also be meddling in foreign elections As other comments have mentioned, this is more likely posturing in anticipation of an internal power struggle.

marviel 4y ago
Very possibly both.

it_citizen 4y ago

Russian interference is a pretty one sided thing. If it happened, it was to Trump benefit. Such declaration will be dismissed by conservatives as Democrat narrative. And democrats will just get comforted in their position. Russia would be stupid to say anything that would help democrats. They would be much better off with a republican house and senate. I think there are smarter things to say if they wanted to muddy the waters.

lijogdfljk 4y ago
I've seen that narrative in Conservative circles. However i've seen just about everything over there, so it's really difficult for me to know what is "sticking" and what is just clumps of people agreeing to random things. Ie what i'm referencing is more than just a single comment, it was many in agreement; but i've tended to see these "pockets of fringe" where in any larger thread i can expect to see just about anything being discussed and agreed upon. Makes it really hard to discern larger beliefs.
matwood 4y ago
I think you're thinking short term. I don't think Russia cares democrat or republican, they want exactly what's happening - lack of confidence in the election process. Trump benefitted because he's reading from the same playbook - push a lack of confidence in the election process. From Russia's standpoint, they can't take down the US. The US can certainly destroy itself from the inside though. If we assume the GOP is already questioning all election results, then this most recent comment from Russia will bring more of the left in to question the results. When everyone questions the results, the US has a big problem.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  You think Russia has no preferences between option a) party that has been providing Ukraine with weapons systems that are demolishing their military and option b) party that has vowed to end all aid to Ukraine? Really? The war in Ukraine is obviously the #1 most important, most critical issue for Putin right now. It is as close to do-or-die as a dictatorial nationstate can get and the situation is getting worse by the day for Russia.
  - factsarelolz 4y ago
    > Really? If someone were to believe what you're saying is true then Putin would have invaded Ukraine under a Republican President, Trump. Russia only seems to fuck with Ukraine when a Democrat is President. Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      > Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Wait so... why would he? Considering this is exactly what he did? Could it be that there are other components to a decision to invade than merely who is in power halfway around the world? There's nothing incompatible with this and the idea they he'd prefer Trump, or any NATO-withdrawing and foreign-aid withholding party, in power.
prox 4y ago
It is already well documented that while part of what you say is true (favouring maga gop) that sowing the divisions in any way, shape or form is a goal is also true. Source : actual kgb agents who did this[0] 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5WjRjz5mTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5WjRjz5mTU
kube-system 4y ago
It is officially documented that Russia's campaigns have supported varying ideologies. While they do have some preference for foreign policy, it is also in their interest to increase division.
Haga 4y ago

yrgulation 4y ago

I doubt russia has any interest in swaying results in democrats favour. If anything republicans have already said they would reduce sent to ukraine. To win, putin needs a few weeks or months of ukraine undersupply.

marviel 4y ago
While I agree that the findings would be "Putin helped the Right by meddling in foreign elections" -- the ability to plant the idea "your elections should not be trusted" may on-balance make it irrelevant to Russia's ends which party the meddling was initially associated with. The events of January 6th make it evident that many on the right are of the belief that elections are no longer free or fair. All that is to say it's kind of ironic. If I'm correct, the information that Putin helped the right by meddling, will be reduced and spun by many outlets to go from "there was meddling in our elections that helped the right" into just "our elections are untrustworthy".

this_user 4y ago

That is what a lot of people are missing with this: The goal of Russian propaganda has always been to create chaos and get people to disengage by creating a feeling that nothing is true, or at least that the truth is unknowable. Hence the constant stream of extremely transparent lies and BS. In other words, the point of their election interference is not primarily to manipulate the election successfully, but to create the belief that they did.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bjhartin 4y ago
This. What a powerful tool - try to get people to believe what you want, but if you fail, steer the landing so it just further adds to the confusion, rather than being evidence of dishonesty.