4 ms·

> The utility ease of holding bitcoin is apparent with this seizure. What other asset could you hide the equivalent of $1B USD in a floor safe and a popcorn tin

> The utility ease of holding bitcoin is apparent with this seizure. What other asset could you hide the equivalent of $1B USD in a floor safe and a popcorn tin and without having to use a 3rd party custodian? Back in the day, the answer would have been bearer bonds, but they're no longer popular instruments.

busyant 4y ago
> bearer bonds The financial instrument of choice for movie heist villains from the 1970s to early 2000s.
- krustyburger 4y ago
  They’re still relevant in that there’s always a chance someone may ask you to “do a Die Hard.”
- closewith 4y ago
  And the Italian Mafia until at least 2009! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasso_financial_smuggling_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasso_financial_smuggling_ca... > The total value of the counterfeit bonds was estimated at approximately one percent of total U.S. GDP in 2008
  - dmix 4y ago
    What a fascinating story. Very mysterious... > The Financial Times also reported that the two suspects "had been released" by Italian authorities. I guess they helped direct the police to the actual counterfeiters. > An earlier billion-dollar bond case was recorded in 2002, when the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, located in Chicago, heard a case from two men who sought $100 billion from the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. So two guys tried to bring a fake bearer bond worth $100B and tried to cash it out? That's hilarious. It also sounds like they didn't even get in trouble.
  - busyant 4y ago
    Good lord, that story is insane. Some choice excerpts: > ... Japanese nationals in their 50s ... who had attempted to enter Switzerland with a suitcase ... containing what ... appeared to be U.S. Treasury Bonds worth $134.5 billion. Enough to buy a couple of Twitters! > The Financial Times also reported that the two suspects "had been released" by Italian authorities. ?????????????????????? edit: > On September 18, 2009, a similar incident was reported ... by the Italian financial military police ... involving two Philippines nationals smuggling purported U.S. Treasury bonds valued at approximately $180 billion Why do these involve Asian nationals? I'm just not a good enough crook to determine the advantage here... > On February 17, 2012, it was reported that Italian police had seized $6 trillion in counterfeit U.S. bonds.... If you're gonna commit a crime, you might as well swing for the fences, eh? This is Dr. Evil type stuff!
    - tedunangst 4y ago
      > Why do these involve Asian nationals? I'm just not a good enough crook to determine the advantage here... Kansas City shuffle. You find someone who wants to help run the con, but they're actually the mark.
mminer237 4y ago
New bearer bonds were outlawed forty years ago is why.
- closewith 4y ago
  The world extends beyond the US. The Panama Papers showed that bearer bonds were alive and well all the way until the mid-2010s, and Panama itself only phased them out in 2015.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Which is why I think it's absurd to think it's a coincidence that the rise of crypto happened at the exact same time world financial task-forces snuffed out bearer bonds and offshore anonymous accounts.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  I wonder what percentage of old companies are still owned by « bearer » shares. At least investment/corporate bonds usually expire, so the bearer ones eventually wash out.

busyant 4y ago

> bearer bonds The financial instrument of choice for movie heist villains from the 1970s to early 2000s.

krustyburger 4y ago
They’re still relevant in that there’s always a chance someone may ask you to “do a Die Hard.”
closewith 4y ago
And the Italian Mafia until at least 2009! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasso_financial_smuggling_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasso_financial_smuggling_ca... > The total value of the counterfeit bonds was estimated at approximately one percent of total U.S. GDP in 2008
- dmix 4y ago
  What a fascinating story. Very mysterious... > The Financial Times also reported that the two suspects "had been released" by Italian authorities. I guess they helped direct the police to the actual counterfeiters. > An earlier billion-dollar bond case was recorded in 2002, when the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, located in Chicago, heard a case from two men who sought $100 billion from the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. So two guys tried to bring a fake bearer bond worth $100B and tried to cash it out? That's hilarious. It also sounds like they didn't even get in trouble.
- busyant 4y ago
  Good lord, that story is insane. Some choice excerpts: > ... Japanese nationals in their 50s ... who had attempted to enter Switzerland with a suitcase ... containing what ... appeared to be U.S. Treasury Bonds worth $134.5 billion. Enough to buy a couple of Twitters! > The Financial Times also reported that the two suspects "had been released" by Italian authorities. ?????????????????????? edit: > On September 18, 2009, a similar incident was reported ... by the Italian financial military police ... involving two Philippines nationals smuggling purported U.S. Treasury bonds valued at approximately $180 billion Why do these involve Asian nationals? I'm just not a good enough crook to determine the advantage here... > On February 17, 2012, it was reported that Italian police had seized $6 trillion in counterfeit U.S. bonds.... If you're gonna commit a crime, you might as well swing for the fences, eh? This is Dr. Evil type stuff!
  - tedunangst 4y ago
    > Why do these involve Asian nationals? I'm just not a good enough crook to determine the advantage here... Kansas City shuffle. You find someone who wants to help run the con, but they're actually the mark.

mminer237 4y ago

New bearer bonds were outlawed forty years ago is why.

closewith 4y ago
The world extends beyond the US. The Panama Papers showed that bearer bonds were alive and well all the way until the mid-2010s, and Panama itself only phased them out in 2015.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Which is why I think it's absurd to think it's a coincidence that the rise of crypto happened at the exact same time world financial task-forces snuffed out bearer bonds and offshore anonymous accounts.
Scoundreller 4y ago
I wonder what percentage of old companies are still owned by « bearer » shares. At least investment/corporate bonds usually expire, so the bearer ones eventually wash out.