11 ms·

I'm not sure, what he claimed to do, but if he didn't run around praising this as the next grep: wtf is wrong with those people? I mean you have to start explor

by fock 4y ago

I'm not sure, what he claimed to do, but if he didn't run around praising this as the next grep: wtf is wrong with those people? I mean you have to start exploring things somewhere and why not share them?

imgabe 4y ago
Twitter in particular seems to reward snark and negativity more than anything else.
- maxbond 4y ago
  People can get vicious in Show HN threads, as well.
  - oefrha 4y ago
    On HN unsubstantial put-downs are downvoted/flagged. On Twitter they get hearts and lols. That’s a pretty big difference. (And yes, like another comment said, HN voting is also shit when it comes to certain topics like big tech. Fortunately the crappiest takes upvoted by mobs tend to be modded down by saner humans.)
    - maxbond 4y ago
      Tomato tomato in my mind. On HN you're more likely to find nitpicky objections and backhanded compliments instead, but there's still people who will come into the thread just to tell you they think you're a bad engineer failing to solve irrelevant problems. Which, to be clear, is bullying.
      - klodolph 4y ago
        Yes. HN is kind of like Stack Overflow in how vicious it can be, but like Stack Overflow, anything that looks like an actual attack gets removed. So the people learn to be vicious and a bit subtle about it. Or you get a storm of nitpicks and minor objections to something you say. People going into threads about language X to ask why anyone use a language with such obvious shortcomings.
        jsemrau 4y ago
        Well, the point is that we need to realize there is always a human being on the other side of the comment / post. On Twitter that might not always be true. And these players may have been created for the sole purpose to troll / egg / incite.
        klodolph 4y ago
        I think this is kind of flipped around. On some level the difference between bot and troll is irrelevant, because I care about account behavior. Just like how at some level it is irrelevant whether the behavior is intentional or born of ignorance. Moderation is there to control behavior and content, not to control people. The primary thing people on HN don't understand about Twitter is the personalized feed. On HN, if someone makes low-quality posts, everyone sees it until it gets downvoted into oblivion. On Twitter, if someone's making posts you don't want to see, you block or mute the account and see less of it. What makes a post "low-quality" is inherently subjective, but HN doesn't offer any personalization. I'd characterize HN's approach as being like a little Puritan village in the 17th century, where community members get together to decide someone's fate. Twitter is like a modern city... if you don't like the neighborhood, go somewhere else. Yes, there are trolls on Twitter. But you don't have to see them on your feed. The impact of an individual troll account on Twitter is much lower than the impact of an individual troll account on HN. My general feeling is that very few people actually understand how community management works, even in broad strokes. Certainly not me. As a result, behavior which might be a red flag on one forum may just be part of the ecosystem in another forum.
        kergonath 4y ago
        > On HN, if someone makes low-quality posts, everyone sees it until it gets downvoted into oblivion. I very, very rarely see that in merely low-quality posts. Those that are actually downvoted enough to be hidden are hidden for good reasons. I am sure you could find a handful, but I have never seen a hidden post about which I regretted it was not visible (I’d be curious to see how many you can find). It usually is proper bullying or racist rants. Now, stories get flagged regularly because they go against the grain, and there are several of them I wish we could have discussed. But looking at the new stories, the flagging mechanism gets rid of much more spam than unpopular posts. Anyway, I am not really willing to buy that without some statistics. > As a result, behavior which might be a red flag on one forum may just be part of the ecosystem in another forum. That is certainly true. But I find HN to be on the good side in that respect. Much better than the anything goes of *chan, the constant shitposting of mainstream subreddits (though there are some subreddits I love with great communities), or the constant passive aggressiveness of ./ and el reg (at least when I frequented those; I never looked back after leaving). Ars is nice as well, but a huge troll magnet.
  - klabb3 4y ago
    As someone who has gone through the inquisition, and dreaded it, it wasn't that bad. Show HN attracts criticism, yes, but it's mostly concrete and specific. Generic PR speak doesn't work, but if you address the comments in a direct, honest way, people generally understand that your stuff can't be perfect and that there are tradeoffs. A large part of Show HN has a different target user in mind than this crowd, and that's ok. Snark OTOH, especially at an individual who is only representing themself, is just mean. Of course it happens here too, but it's rare. Reddit and Twitter are completely plagued by it – it usually gets the most engagement, whereas here it's rare and gets a chilly response. Finally, there's one more differentiator. Twitter is people-oriented, you have a profile, usually your real name, and public follower count. Twitter is designed to be a popularity contest. Both hacker news and reddit are content-oriented. Sure, there's a username, but most people don't give a shit about who you are.
  - regular 4y ago
  - fakedang 4y ago
    Aren't we forgetting Snarkis Prime, Stack Overflow?
- Kiro 4y ago
  It's a problem with all social media. As soon as subreddit becomes big enough all the most upvoted comments will be low effort snark. If there's a way to find a negative angle bashing someone/something it will be there. It's also happening on HN for certain topics (big tech etc).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hexmiles 4y ago
  I noted something similar with colleague and friends. I really seem to bring out the worst in people, I'm not sure what it is. Recently I had a conversation with a friend that it is always really considerate and nuanced in every conversation (and other social network), except, Twitter where it becomes kinda vicious, or it managed always express an opinion in the most polarizing way possible. I didn't seem to realized it until I show some of the tweet it posted.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    It's the short format : makes it so much less likely for an explanation, even a followup one.
Lutger 4y ago
I never really understood the toxicity around open source. It was my first interaction around something I published when I was still learning things - being burned to the ground. I don't think I published anything ever since that experience, some 15 years ago. To me, it is just not fun giving your work away like this. All the code since then was paid for, handsomely, and almost nobody complained about it.
- Roark66 4y ago
  Exactly, also imagine how much more difficult a decision to open source their product must be fo a business? I think this toxicity as you called is really harming OS.
  - wallmountedtv 4y ago
    Each day i contribute to open source, i keep thinking of putting it behind me. The amount of bullshit that comes my way, even now 5 years down the line, is really taking its toll. I love to share and make everything i do open. But the people really put a drain on my energy to even try.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
rurban 4y ago
he is a she. it's the js variant of the perl 'replace' script floating around and packaged. just with javascript regexp syntax. so I would find it useful for js folks.
- fock 4y ago
  I'm sorry for reinforcing my bias publicly, unfortunately to late to edit. Thank you.
  - ThunderSizzle 4y ago
    You don't need to apologize, as you did nothing wrong. Your usage was completely acceptable based on the context provided and knoeledge you had. It would be incorrect now since you know she is a she. Defaulting to he isn't bias, it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun.
    - xenocratus 4y ago
      > it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun. .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something?
      - cpach 4y ago
        Nope.
      - gwd 4y ago
        > .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something? When I was growing up, it was explicitly taught in school as being incorrect grammar to use "they" for an ungendered third-person singular pronoun. At some point I decided that was a stupid policy for lots of reasons, and explicitly decided to go ahead and use it anyway. But it still feels weird.
        4y ago
otherme123 4y ago
Modern bioinformatics are based on sharing shitty scripts 20-30 years ago. Sometimes you have this good but complex interface piece of software (e.g. https://evolution.genetics.washington.edu/phylip.html https://evolution.genetics.washington.edu/phylip.html) that newbies find impossible to use, so someone in the middle creates a dirty script that does a very specific thing in a single command, in a way that you just replace the input and output filenames. I can name a number of really bad pieces of software that are widely used because nobody has time/funds to do it properly. Lots of those programs are made by pre-doc students that are learning the basics, and as soon as they get competent at coding, they are absorbed by the private sector.
- BeefWellington 4y ago
  Yeah, the adage "nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution" exists for a reason. A lot of industries that use software but aren't actually tech themselves tend towards this kind of result. E.g.: If one guy figures out how to script some medical imaging task, he'll just share that with other people who then rely on the same script. I've seen it in academics as well, especially around things like image processing.
TrackerFF 4y ago
Lots of extremely opinionated people in tech, nothing new. Probably the same type of people that will tear apart completely fine code, because they need to assert authority at all costs. Best you can do is to either completely ignore them, or tell them to grow the f##k up and behave like adults.
adql 4y ago
It does have like 700+ stars and 91 forks; question how many of them are "ironical" but definitely doesn't look like "someone digged out a piece of old code and decided to have a joke"

by fock 4y ago

imgabe 4y ago

Twitter in particular seems to reward snark and negativity more than anything else.

maxbond 4y ago
People can get vicious in Show HN threads, as well.
- oefrha 4y ago
  On HN unsubstantial put-downs are downvoted/flagged. On Twitter they get hearts and lols. That’s a pretty big difference. (And yes, like another comment said, HN voting is also shit when it comes to certain topics like big tech. Fortunately the crappiest takes upvoted by mobs tend to be modded down by saner humans.)
  - maxbond 4y ago
    Tomato tomato in my mind. On HN you're more likely to find nitpicky objections and backhanded compliments instead, but there's still people who will come into the thread just to tell you they think you're a bad engineer failing to solve irrelevant problems. Which, to be clear, is bullying.
    - klodolph 4y ago
      Yes. HN is kind of like Stack Overflow in how vicious it can be, but like Stack Overflow, anything that looks like an actual attack gets removed. So the people learn to be vicious and a bit subtle about it. Or you get a storm of nitpicks and minor objections to something you say. People going into threads about language X to ask why anyone use a language with such obvious shortcomings.
      - jsemrau 4y ago
        Well, the point is that we need to realize there is always a human being on the other side of the comment / post. On Twitter that might not always be true. And these players may have been created for the sole purpose to troll / egg / incite.
        klodolph 4y ago
        I think this is kind of flipped around. On some level the difference between bot and troll is irrelevant, because I care about account behavior. Just like how at some level it is irrelevant whether the behavior is intentional or born of ignorance. Moderation is there to control behavior and content, not to control people. The primary thing people on HN don't understand about Twitter is the personalized feed. On HN, if someone makes low-quality posts, everyone sees it until it gets downvoted into oblivion. On Twitter, if someone's making posts you don't want to see, you block or mute the account and see less of it. What makes a post "low-quality" is inherently subjective, but HN doesn't offer any personalization. I'd characterize HN's approach as being like a little Puritan village in the 17th century, where community members get together to decide someone's fate. Twitter is like a modern city... if you don't like the neighborhood, go somewhere else. Yes, there are trolls on Twitter. But you don't have to see them on your feed. The impact of an individual troll account on Twitter is much lower than the impact of an individual troll account on HN. My general feeling is that very few people actually understand how community management works, even in broad strokes. Certainly not me. As a result, behavior which might be a red flag on one forum may just be part of the ecosystem in another forum.
        kergonath 4y ago
        > On HN, if someone makes low-quality posts, everyone sees it until it gets downvoted into oblivion. I very, very rarely see that in merely low-quality posts. Those that are actually downvoted enough to be hidden are hidden for good reasons. I am sure you could find a handful, but I have never seen a hidden post about which I regretted it was not visible (I’d be curious to see how many you can find). It usually is proper bullying or racist rants. Now, stories get flagged regularly because they go against the grain, and there are several of them I wish we could have discussed. But looking at the new stories, the flagging mechanism gets rid of much more spam than unpopular posts. Anyway, I am not really willing to buy that without some statistics. > As a result, behavior which might be a red flag on one forum may just be part of the ecosystem in another forum. That is certainly true. But I find HN to be on the good side in that respect. Much better than the anything goes of *chan, the constant shitposting of mainstream subreddits (though there are some subreddits I love with great communities), or the constant passive aggressiveness of ./ and el reg (at least when I frequented those; I never looked back after leaving). Ars is nice as well, but a huge troll magnet.
- klabb3 4y ago
  As someone who has gone through the inquisition, and dreaded it, it wasn't that bad. Show HN attracts criticism, yes, but it's mostly concrete and specific. Generic PR speak doesn't work, but if you address the comments in a direct, honest way, people generally understand that your stuff can't be perfect and that there are tradeoffs. A large part of Show HN has a different target user in mind than this crowd, and that's ok. Snark OTOH, especially at an individual who is only representing themself, is just mean. Of course it happens here too, but it's rare. Reddit and Twitter are completely plagued by it – it usually gets the most engagement, whereas here it's rare and gets a chilly response. Finally, there's one more differentiator. Twitter is people-oriented, you have a profile, usually your real name, and public follower count. Twitter is designed to be a popularity contest. Both hacker news and reddit are content-oriented. Sure, there's a username, but most people don't give a shit about who you are.
- regular 4y ago
- fakedang 4y ago
  Aren't we forgetting Snarkis Prime, Stack Overflow?
Kiro 4y ago
It's a problem with all social media. As soon as subreddit becomes big enough all the most upvoted comments will be low effort snark. If there's a way to find a negative angle bashing someone/something it will be there. It's also happening on HN for certain topics (big tech etc).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hexmiles 4y ago
I noted something similar with colleague and friends. I really seem to bring out the worst in people, I'm not sure what it is. Recently I had a conversation with a friend that it is always really considerate and nuanced in every conversation (and other social network), except, Twitter where it becomes kinda vicious, or it managed always express an opinion in the most polarizing way possible. I didn't seem to realized it until I show some of the tweet it posted.
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  It's the short format : makes it so much less likely for an explanation, even a followup one.

Lutger 4y ago

I never really understood the toxicity around open source. It was my first interaction around something I published when I was still learning things - being burned to the ground. I don't think I published anything ever since that experience, some 15 years ago. To me, it is just not fun giving your work away like this. All the code since then was paid for, handsomely, and almost nobody complained about it.

Roark66 4y ago
Exactly, also imagine how much more difficult a decision to open source their product must be fo a business? I think this toxicity as you called is really harming OS.
- wallmountedtv 4y ago
  Each day i contribute to open source, i keep thinking of putting it behind me. The amount of bullshit that comes my way, even now 5 years down the line, is really taking its toll. I love to share and make everything i do open. But the people really put a drain on my energy to even try.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

rurban 4y ago

he is a she. it's the js variant of the perl 'replace' script floating around and packaged. just with javascript regexp syntax. so I would find it useful for js folks.

fock 4y ago
I'm sorry for reinforcing my bias publicly, unfortunately to late to edit. Thank you.
- ThunderSizzle 4y ago
  You don't need to apologize, as you did nothing wrong. Your usage was completely acceptable based on the context provided and knoeledge you had. It would be incorrect now since you know she is a she. Defaulting to he isn't bias, it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun.
  - xenocratus 4y ago
    > it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun. .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something?
    - cpach 4y ago
      Nope.
    - gwd 4y ago
      > .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something? When I was growing up, it was explicitly taught in school as being incorrect grammar to use "they" for an ungendered third-person singular pronoun. At some point I decided that was a stupid policy for lots of reasons, and explicitly decided to go ahead and use it anyway. But it still feels weird.
      - 4y ago

otherme123 4y ago

Modern bioinformatics are based on sharing shitty scripts 20-30 years ago. Sometimes you have this good but complex interface piece of software (e.g. https://evolution.genetics.washington.edu/phylip.html https://evolution.genetics.washington.edu/phylip.html) that newbies find impossible to use, so someone in the middle creates a dirty script that does a very specific thing in a single command, in a way that you just replace the input and output filenames. I can name a number of really bad pieces of software that are widely used because nobody has time/funds to do it properly. Lots of those programs are made by pre-doc students that are learning the basics, and as soon as they get competent at coding, they are absorbed by the private sector.

BeefWellington 4y ago
Yeah, the adage "nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution" exists for a reason. A lot of industries that use software but aren't actually tech themselves tend towards this kind of result. E.g.: If one guy figures out how to script some medical imaging task, he'll just share that with other people who then rely on the same script. I've seen it in academics as well, especially around things like image processing.

TrackerFF 4y ago

Lots of extremely opinionated people in tech, nothing new. Probably the same type of people that will tear apart completely fine code, because they need to assert authority at all costs. Best you can do is to either completely ignore them, or tell them to grow the f##k up and behave like adults.

adql 4y ago

It does have like 700+ stars and 91 forks; question how many of them are "ironical" but definitely doesn't look like "someone digged out a piece of old code and decided to have a joke"