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In the US. In continental Europe I've seen just the opposite. In many social contexts having an iPhone is associated with either being a mindless fanboy, a bas

• mike_d 4y ago
  The US is an absolutely huge win - get the valuable customers and leave the rest for Android. For comparison the 2021 advertising spend in the US was greater than that of the next 10 countries combined.
  • solardev 4y ago
    That sounds like a societal failing rather than marketing genius
    • guhidalg 4y ago
      Nope, a country so rich that it spends money trying to influence how money is spent. I’ll take advertisement over monopolies any day.
      • kingboss 4y ago
        You have both don't worry...
  • seydor 4y ago
    - the US is filthy rich compared to europe at this point in time , but that also means that US is exporting less - the population of 10 european countries combined is not as big as the US
    • Someone 4y ago
      > the population of 10 european countries combined is not as big as the US Populations (skipping Russia with 145 million): Germany 83 million, UK 67 million, France 65 million, Italy 60 million, Spain 47 million, Ukraine 43 million. That’s 6 countries, 365 million people. The USA has 332 million. Even taking ‘Europe’ mean ‘the EU’, the ten largest (by population) countries together have about 360 million people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U...)
    • vetinari 4y ago
      > - the population of 10 european countries combined is not as big as the US Exactly opposite. US states generally have larger area, but lower population. Population-wise, California is about the size of Poland and Texas is similar to Romania. No state is comparable to Germany (83M), France (65M) or Italy (60M).
  • fnord123 4y ago
    > For comparison the 2021 advertising spend in the US was greater than that of the next 10 countries combined. That sounds like a quality of life issue for people in America.
• FearlessNebula 4y ago
  Are iPhones more expensive than Android in the EU? Here in the US they’re pretty much the same price, at least the past few years.
  • Shared404 4y ago
    Upper range iPhone and Android are comparable in the US, but Android covers a much much larger price range in my experience.
    • FearlessNebula 4y ago
      These days with the iPhone SE you can get a $400 iPhone, there’s $300 Androids which the iPhone doesn’t hit but below $300 an Android is gonna be so bad it’s not really in consideration in the first place for most people.
      • bakugo 4y ago
        > with the iPhone SE you can get a $400 iPhone Which is an absolute joke of a phone unless you just value the apple logo that much, which most of Europe doesn't. 720p screen? 4gb ram? What decade are we in again?
        • philliphaydon 4y ago
          Every time someone complains about ram in the iPhone it’s evidence they don’t know what they are talking about and chase the numbers trends of android.
          • bakugo 4y ago
            If you're not paying for numbers, what are you paying for then? What reason could there be to pay $400 for a 2022 iphone that doesn't provide anything that a $400 android from 5 years ago doesn't?
            • 4y ago
• hnov 4y ago
  I think that really depends on what social circles you run in.
  • adlpz 4y ago
    It does, totally. My comment is very much anecdata. As an example, I've noticed this to be very common in many scenes in Berlin, while in Germany as a whole iOS has a 45% market share. So, yes, definitely. However it does show a marked difference with the US which is common enough to be worth mentioning.
    • appletrotter 4y ago
      I think you can find the same circles in the US.
• mdmglr 4y ago
  > In many social contexts having an iPhone is associated with either being a mindless fanboy, a basic trend-following drone or, in general, bad with money. This is a bad take and is more revealing about your social circle.
  • bombolo 4y ago
    In europe apple stuff costs much more.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • Xixi 4y ago
      It's something that I often hear, but each time I check, the difference is minimal. So I did the comparison again between France and the US, for an iPhone 14 (unlocked, 128 GB) + AppleCare+. I take the phone unlocked, with AppleCare+, to attempt a normalization across regulations. Default warranty in the US is much weaker than in the EU, but should be the same with AppleCare+. Buying a locked phone is also cheaper in the US, but AFAIK it's not possible to buy a locked phone in France anymore. US: 978 USD (excluding sales taxes), France: 1198 EUR (TTC, including sales taxes) or 998 EUR (HT, excluding sales taxes), so about 992 USD at current rate. So the iPhone in France costs about 14 USD more, or 1.45% more. That's not "much more" in my book, although it is a little bit more. I think the common mistake is to compare European prices with sales taxes (20% in France) against US prices without sales taxes... Hint: prices displayed on the Apple store in the US are always displayed without sales taxes, while in the EU prices always include sales taxes (I'm not sure it's true in all 27 member states, but it's definitely true in France).
      • Swizec 4y ago
        The difference is in salary, not price. iPhone costs as much in USA as EU in absolute terms, but when that’s 50% of your monthly income, you go buy a cheap (or telecom sponsored) Android. It won’t be a flagship Android but at least there’s an option you can buy that on paper has all the same specs.
• smnscu 4y ago
  Absolutely. As a continental European, I am always discussing with my fellow Europeans such matters; like when Hans bought a new Mercedes-Benz automobile. Silly man, doesn't he know a Dacia does the same thing for less? We all had a hearty chuckle about it.
  • scrubs 4y ago
    I've had both. But after your 28th phone, 4th for wife (cause they never lose or break em) and 609th one for kids, the thrill wore off a line time ago. Phones are a blur. Nonetheless I'm pretty sure apple would not want to hear X likes apple hates android merely b/c it reads apple where it disappears into NY Post page 6 buzz and gossip thing eg vapid nonsense I think they want to hear they like apple because of its hw/sw features and tight integration. Brand is a by way to tqa which is a by way to sqa (isakawa). Fanboys are repulsive to anybody who cares about products and services
  • adlpz 4y ago
    Look, I know where you are coming from, but I'm sure you know it's not the same thing. It's not a culture of being cheap. Is a culture of not valuing, in particular, the Apple tax. A huge amount of people in Europe happily overpay for their cars. In any country of western or southern Europe you'll see tons of Mercedes. I feel like you got offended by my comment as if I was criticising Europeans somehow. I wasn't.
    • bowsamic 4y ago
      But in Europe there’s no apple tax. iPhones are often cheaper than the high end android phones here
      • pjmlp 4y ago
        Except most population gets pre-paid cards with cheap Android devices.
        • bowsamic 4y ago
• scarface74 4y ago
  Yes I’m sure with 38% of cell phones users in the EU owning iPhones, that you have your finger on the pulse of the opinions of most Europeans…
  • adlpz 4y ago
    Never argued I do. I provided anecdata which does describe a common difference between the EU and the US in this matter. I reside in the EU and I use an iPhone. This is dependent on context and social circle, but it does happen.
    • scarface74 4y ago
      >I provided anecdata which does describe a common difference… You really don’t see the fallacy in this statement? Do you have any statistically valid longitudinal surveys? > This is dependent on context and social circle, but it does happen And every woman that lives in my house thinks I’m the best husband for her. You can draw any conclusion as long as you limit the sample size.
      • adlpz 4y ago
        I'm sorry I wasn't aware this we are doing is to be taken and done with the scientific pulchritude of a peer-reviewed journal. This is obviously an informal conversation and I've clearly stated in my comment that "I've seen" a different situation "in many social contexts". Which I, again, informally generalize into a phenomenon I consider common enough to be mentioned. I do not intend to provide you with statistical backing for what amounts to, again, clearly obviously anecdotal evidence. In short: Jesus, if you disagree or have a different experience, it's OK, let me know, no need to go straight into a formal semantics discussion.
        • scarface74 4y ago
          What does your completely anecdotal experience add to the conversation? Especially seeing that 35% of EU cell phone users own iPhones? It means about as much as the old Slashdot meme “I haven’t watched TV in a decade. Do people still watch TV?” Could it possibly be that your experience is not representative of the broader EU?
• speakfreely 4y ago
  I think it comes down to social class. Most German, French, and Spanish people I know that travel frequently, make upper-professional incomes, and belong to what you would typically say is "upper middle class" are almost exclusively using iPhones.
  • kyriakos 4y ago
    The difference is that regardless of what device people don't seem to care what others are using. There is no iMessage effect cause other messaging platforms are used which behave the same on both iOS and android. At the same time it's also not a status symbol the way it may be in US. A top end Samsung generally costs more than a top end iPhone.
• dagmx 4y ago
  I suspect you might be grossly extrapolating from your own social circles. I think it’s a really safe assumption that most people don’t really care what others have, or really care that much about a device vs it doing what they need. I don’t think that’s a US vs Europe thing. I see people in tech circles in America make the same judgements, but don’t realize that it’s irrelevant
  • thomasahle 4y ago
    > I don’t think that’s a US vs Europe thing I had never encountered the "blue vs green" bubble problem until moving to the US. It's partly because the US has a higher rate of iPhones (through subsidized phone plans) and partly because the US hung onto SMS much longer than other countries.
    • dagmx 4y ago
      Sure, I won’t deny that there’s a blue/green bubble issue in the same way that people have issues with any friction point. This is the same as if one set of friends are on WhatsApp and another set are on telegram etc… and having to deal with either switching between apps or dealing with reduced capabilities. However the initial person I was replying to was talking about judgements regarding the device itself and as a whole, not just messaging friction
      • riatin 4y ago
        To add my own lived experience, the whole blue / green text thing is absolutely a cultural label throughout continental Europe. As a 20-something who has recently lived in France + Denmark, you do seem like a bit of a pariah without an iPhone
        • lodovic 4y ago
          Really? In my experience, the main audience for iPhones, consists of three groups: high earners, fans and children. The first group buys for status, the second group buys for convenience, and the third group because the repairs are cheaper and easier (fewer models). Most people I know despise the Apple model of always trying to squeeze some more money out of you.
• kyriakos 4y ago
  Not sure how universal its in all of Europe but at least where I live, nobody uses SMS for communication. To the point that government services are unofficially using viber and WhatsApp to communicate with citizens. In recent years I only used SMS for 2FA.
  • realusername 4y ago
    That's exactly the reason why iMessage isn't used much in Europe, it's seen as an SMS client and SMS aren't used anymore. Half of the problem is a branding issue (calling it "messages" on the phone did not help) and the other half of the issue is that it's not available on Android
• acchow 4y ago
  Where in Continental Europe?
• Vibgyor5 4y ago
  The fact that you are getting so many response arguing that "its just your social circle/just one anecdotal data", when the parent pro-iPhone comment is exactly the same anecdotal evidence speaks volume about pro-iPhone bias that plenty of North American users may have. Some of the arguments are straight up bonkers for me - for instance, "iMessage is more secure." Is it? Apple is a US-based firm and subject to the whims of US laws and governmental intrusion. In my circle - and I have lived in both Europe and Asia - we heavily use Telegram. I find it to be far more favorable experience than iMessage. UX and interoperatibility between platforms is far more superior and it runs flawlessly - doesn't matter whether it is a flagship Apple/Samsung device or a cheap Xiaomi phone. Or PC/Mac/Linux for that matter.
  • easrng 4y ago
    iMessage is more secure at least if both ends have iCloud backups off.
    • ricardobayes 4y ago
      iMessage and iPhones being 'more secure' is simply not true. I know it's being thrown around a lot, but e.g. Pegasus famously had zero-click exploits for iMessage.
      • easrng 4y ago
        iMessage is (at least somewhat) end to end encrypted and SMS is not.
        • adlpz 4y ago
          SMS is very uncommon in much of Europe. I'm feeling you are assuming that the alternative to iMessages in Europe is SMS. It's not. The alternative is WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Facebook Messenger, etc.
          • easrng 4y ago
• matt-attack 4y ago
  My assumption (as an iPhone user) is that if you're on Android, you absolutely have a phone that can do the same thing, but it also tells me you're not someone who obsesses about the details. Good enough. If you truly obsess about details, you would recognize that the Apple hardware/software ecosystem is worth every incremental penny.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • jemmyw 4y ago
    That's a bad assumption. I obsess about the details and I don't like iOS. My wife obsesses about details but doesn't give a damn about tech or phones. As a person, my assumption is that if you judge people by the phone they use you might not be very nice.
  • sdorf 4y ago
    I daily an Android phone and use Macs exclusively for personal and productivity use, with some Linux machines for personal play as well. If you start to really 'obsess about the details' -- and this'll mean different things to different people -- you'll start to run into the walls that Apple puts up. It's a very one-sided "my way or the highway" dynamic. It's easier to work around on their laptops, but impossible (or at least unreasonably impractical) on their phones. For context I gave iOS a shake twice, once with the XR and once with the 13 mini. I've always felt that iOS is the platform you go with for: - unparalleled high-quality integration with the Apple ecosystem - a very strongly (and unavoidably) opinionated experience (where the opinions are usually more-or-less correct)
  • awestroke 4y ago
    Oh yeah, what details are those? That for the longest time, Apple thought too little of their users to allow them to store files on their phone? Or the fact that the iPhone massively over-processes photos, to the point where you can instantly tell that a photo is taken with an iPhone (and not in a good way)? Or the fact that they still use lightning connectors, which they have held a cramped grip on until they are forced to switch to new technology? Or the fact that the App Store, XCode, ObjectiveC and related docs are widely regarded to have the worst DX in the industry? Or maybe that you don't own your phone enough that you can sideload apps? Or the detail that you pay 10000% markup if you choose to buy a phone with extra storage?
• pmontra 4y ago
  In my own experience we in Europe don't care much about which phone other people are using. Of course we are defending the reason why we have either an iPhone or more probably an Android but all messages have the same color on WhatsApp and everybody kind of must use it in my country. I knew that there were European countries with a FB Messenger majority (France?) but I don't know if it's still a thing. Having to use WhatsApp removes a reason to have to buy an iPhone and adds a new one not to care about the brand of the phone.
  • SSLy 4y ago
    Poland is still a stark FB Messenger majority too. SMS second.
• seydor 4y ago
  less judgemental-y, Macs are trouble for conference makers and schools because of all the lack of ports / limitations and yeah they are perceived as "status" lifestyle items. It's why apple emphasizes devices that can be shown off/worn in public
• onethought 4y ago
  I don't want this to sound as fanboy as it does, but iPhone is really market leader in hardware, the Apple Silicon + Battery management just has no serious competitor. I agree software-wise Android ~= iOS but Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 < Apple A16.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• weberer 4y ago
  Where in Europe? Its an entire continent with a huge salary range and many different cultures. Here in Finland, the iPhone is quite popular, and pretty much seen as the default option for non-tech people who don't want to root their phone. The 400 euro model is affordable for most people. But I wouldn't think that would be the case at all in a poorer country like Poland or Romania.