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Looks almost modern. "Archaeologists suggest that the tank was likely visible in ancient times to allow access to the two stop keys, enabling the inhabitants t

Looks almost modern. "Archaeologists suggest that the tank was likely visible in ancient times to allow access to the two stop keys, enabling the inhabitants to regulate the flow or shut off water distribution in order to carry out maintenance operations of the system." In other words, valves! The one less ideal thing is that it's made of lead of course.

alex_young 4y ago
> The one less ideal thing is that it's made of lead of course. Unfortunately that’s kind of modern too. Lead pipes are still used in every US state. https://www.nrdc.org/resources/lead-pipes-are-widespread-and-used-every-state https://www.nrdc.org/resources/lead-pipes-are-widespread-and...
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Everyone who is serious about their health and has the means should be invested in reverse osmosis filtration at home with KDF and carbon pre-filtration even if you have "good" water. Drinking huge volumes of water on the order of a gallon per day is important for general health and water is the main way most people ingest carcinogens due to sheer volume.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    > Drinking huge volumes of water on the order of a gallon per day is important for general health I don't believe that is true, and excess water can be dangerous by causing hyponatremia.
    - orangepurple 4y ago
      Yeah nobody is getting hyponatremia from drinking a gallon of water over the course of a day. Especially if eating a typical American diet.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    You absolutely don’t need to drink a gallon of water a day under all circumstances. You also certainly don’t need an RO filter in most places. Tap water can be a great source of some minerals, depending on location and a little fluoride is great for your teeth. What carcinogens are you worried about in average tap water?
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  OK, I read that over. It seems to be entirely estimates and "could be." No one's dug up a service line and said, "Yep, there's lead in that." One GAO report says, As we reported in 2017, based on the available data, the majority of the 68,000 water systems subject to the Lead and Copper Rule at the time of our review had not been required to replace lead service lines and therefore were not required to conduct complete inventories. In other words, no one knows. So while it's not false to say that "Lead pipes are still used in every US state" it's also not provably true. Right? A good question would be, "why aren't they required to replace lead service lines?" This would be a health benefit beyond any possible doubt.
  - appletrotter 4y ago
    At the end of the day, it's how much lead is in the water coming out of your taps, right?
    - ISL 4y ago
      Yes, but if you don't have lead infrastructure in your water system, it is extremely difficult to have lead come out of your tap. If you do have lead pipes, however, it only takes a shift in pH to pull the lead into solution.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      Right, and more to the point, it's much easier to check tap water for the presence of lead than to inventory the entire water system (which is also worth doing).
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    I’m not sure why you’re choosing to go down this line if faulty reasoning, but the consist of municipal service lines is not completely mysterious. There’s a difference between knowing the status of every pipe and knowing what the system is generally made up of. My spouse was on the leadership team of a municipal water district. They knew at the block level where lead (or even wood & lead) service were likely to be, and had prioritized inventories of infrastructure like valves, etc that required replacement. They weren’t pioneers in this area, every water utility does this. As breaks were repaired or other ground work (sewer remediation, new storm drains, etc) they had a capital fund to make replacements. The main remaining place where lead is present is between the water main/service valve and people’s homes. That pipe is usually the financial responsibility of the homeowner, and it’s an expensive job - $5-15k. The other factor is that the lead issue, like asbestos, is overblown. As long as the civil engineers responsible for the infrastructure aren’t bypassed by criminally negligent political leadership (aka what happened in Flint, MI), there’s no meaningful risk. If you’re using an untreated well, different story.
- throwthere 4y ago
  I'm not saying it's not a problem but after a few minutes of research I think some context is useful. The current source of lead seems mostly (maybe almost entirely?) from "lead service lines," which is the pipe between the street and the home. And, new installations of those lines has been illegal since 1986 in the US.
  - Cupertino95014 4y ago
    > new installations of those lines has been illegal since 1986 in the US News to me. Do you have a citation for that? In the San Jose area we get junk mail almost monthly imploring us to buy insurance against the cost of replacing our water lines, because of their age. So I would have assumed that they all get replaced every 50 years or so.
    - bpodgursky 4y ago
      I assume they mean "installation of service lines made of Lead"
      - Cupertino95014 4y ago
        Good point. That's a better wording.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Copper is usually fine up to 75-100 years old, but a lot of houses have galvanized pipe, which rusts pretty severely over time. It’s not uncommon for them to rust almost closed within 25 years. PVC can get brittle, and PE pipe has notorious problems with connectors corroding/failing. A lot of older sewer lines are clay or cast iron, and they also crack or rust through. Like wiring, eventually it makes sense to replace them.
- emmelaich 4y ago
  And AC (asbestos cement) FWIW. https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-water/distribution/article/16190948/the-asbestos-beneath-our-streets https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-water/distribution/artic...
wazoox 4y ago
Lead piping was still pretty common in the 20th century almost everywhere.
fuzzfactor 4y ago
It does look like the valves themselves (with tube stubs) were vendor-supplied. Could be two different vendors at two different times. Those look like modern forged tapered-stem stopcock valves, probably hand fabricated to arrive at a product not much different than a machine shop would make today. The manifold/tank could have been made from hammered and welded sheet with end(s) somewhat removable for occasional maintenance. Looks like maybe places for a couple more taps to the right of the two that are in there now. Like today, the plumbers were the ones who put the parts together and ran the pipes to the points-of-use.
jbay808 4y ago
There are lots of Roman valves in old villas or places like Pompeii.[1] As you say, the design hasn't changed much! [1] http://www.shinjovalve.com/news/let-s-talk-about-ancient-roman-valves.html http://www.shinjovalve.com/news/let-s-talk-about-ancient-rom...
bergenty 4y ago
I went to a museum in Italy and Roman plumbing was very modern looking. They had valves, t bends, taps, pressure nozzles etc. made of bronze or lead. Really did not expect that.

alex_young 4y ago

> The one less ideal thing is that it's made of lead of course. Unfortunately that’s kind of modern too. Lead pipes are still used in every US state. https://www.nrdc.org/resources/lead-pipes-are-widespread-and-used-every-state https://www.nrdc.org/resources/lead-pipes-are-widespread-and...

orangepurple 4y ago
Everyone who is serious about their health and has the means should be invested in reverse osmosis filtration at home with KDF and carbon pre-filtration even if you have "good" water. Drinking huge volumes of water on the order of a gallon per day is important for general health and water is the main way most people ingest carcinogens due to sheer volume.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  > Drinking huge volumes of water on the order of a gallon per day is important for general health I don't believe that is true, and excess water can be dangerous by causing hyponatremia.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    Yeah nobody is getting hyponatremia from drinking a gallon of water over the course of a day. Especially if eating a typical American diet.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  You absolutely don’t need to drink a gallon of water a day under all circumstances. You also certainly don’t need an RO filter in most places. Tap water can be a great source of some minerals, depending on location and a little fluoride is great for your teeth. What carcinogens are you worried about in average tap water?
AlbertCory 4y ago
OK, I read that over. It seems to be entirely estimates and "could be." No one's dug up a service line and said, "Yep, there's lead in that." One GAO report says, As we reported in 2017, based on the available data, the majority of the 68,000 water systems subject to the Lead and Copper Rule at the time of our review had not been required to replace lead service lines and therefore were not required to conduct complete inventories. In other words, no one knows. So while it's not false to say that "Lead pipes are still used in every US state" it's also not provably true. Right? A good question would be, "why aren't they required to replace lead service lines?" This would be a health benefit beyond any possible doubt.
- appletrotter 4y ago
  At the end of the day, it's how much lead is in the water coming out of your taps, right?
  - ISL 4y ago
    Yes, but if you don't have lead infrastructure in your water system, it is extremely difficult to have lead come out of your tap. If you do have lead pipes, however, it only takes a shift in pH to pull the lead into solution.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Right, and more to the point, it's much easier to check tap water for the presence of lead than to inventory the entire water system (which is also worth doing).
- Spooky23 4y ago
  I’m not sure why you’re choosing to go down this line if faulty reasoning, but the consist of municipal service lines is not completely mysterious. There’s a difference between knowing the status of every pipe and knowing what the system is generally made up of. My spouse was on the leadership team of a municipal water district. They knew at the block level where lead (or even wood & lead) service were likely to be, and had prioritized inventories of infrastructure like valves, etc that required replacement. They weren’t pioneers in this area, every water utility does this. As breaks were repaired or other ground work (sewer remediation, new storm drains, etc) they had a capital fund to make replacements. The main remaining place where lead is present is between the water main/service valve and people’s homes. That pipe is usually the financial responsibility of the homeowner, and it’s an expensive job - $5-15k. The other factor is that the lead issue, like asbestos, is overblown. As long as the civil engineers responsible for the infrastructure aren’t bypassed by criminally negligent political leadership (aka what happened in Flint, MI), there’s no meaningful risk. If you’re using an untreated well, different story.
throwthere 4y ago
I'm not saying it's not a problem but after a few minutes of research I think some context is useful. The current source of lead seems mostly (maybe almost entirely?) from "lead service lines," which is the pipe between the street and the home. And, new installations of those lines has been illegal since 1986 in the US.
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  > new installations of those lines has been illegal since 1986 in the US News to me. Do you have a citation for that? In the San Jose area we get junk mail almost monthly imploring us to buy insurance against the cost of replacing our water lines, because of their age. So I would have assumed that they all get replaced every 50 years or so.
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    I assume they mean "installation of service lines made of Lead"
    - Cupertino95014 4y ago
      Good point. That's a better wording.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Copper is usually fine up to 75-100 years old, but a lot of houses have galvanized pipe, which rusts pretty severely over time. It’s not uncommon for them to rust almost closed within 25 years. PVC can get brittle, and PE pipe has notorious problems with connectors corroding/failing. A lot of older sewer lines are clay or cast iron, and they also crack or rust through. Like wiring, eventually it makes sense to replace them.
emmelaich 4y ago
And AC (asbestos cement) FWIW. https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-water/distribution/article/16190948/the-asbestos-beneath-our-streets https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-water/distribution/artic...

wazoox 4y ago

Lead piping was still pretty common in the 20th century almost everywhere.

fuzzfactor 4y ago

It does look like the valves themselves (with tube stubs) were vendor-supplied. Could be two different vendors at two different times. Those look like modern forged tapered-stem stopcock valves, probably hand fabricated to arrive at a product not much different than a machine shop would make today. The manifold/tank could have been made from hammered and welded sheet with end(s) somewhat removable for occasional maintenance. Looks like maybe places for a couple more taps to the right of the two that are in there now. Like today, the plumbers were the ones who put the parts together and ran the pipes to the points-of-use.

jbay808 4y ago

There are lots of Roman valves in old villas or places like Pompeii.[1] As you say, the design hasn't changed much! [1] http://www.shinjovalve.com/news/let-s-talk-about-ancient-roman-valves.html http://www.shinjovalve.com/news/let-s-talk-about-ancient-rom...

bergenty 4y ago

I went to a museum in Italy and Roman plumbing was very modern looking. They had valves, t bends, taps, pressure nozzles etc. made of bronze or lead. Really did not expect that.