6 ms·

The Onion files Supreme Court amicus brief defending the right to parody

119 points by clockworksoul 4y ago

antiterra 4y ago
Previous discussion in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33076821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33076821
- irrational 4y ago
  Well, I missed the previous discussion. The brief is a hilarious read, so I’m grateful someone reposted it.
pixl97 4y ago
LegalEagle did a video on this that's pretty funny and insightful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTWonQvXkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTWonQvXkw
dontbenebby 4y ago
Null-Set 4y ago
The brief itself is a good read. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/20221003125252896_35295545_1-22.10.03%20-%20Novak-Parma%20-%20Onion%20Amicus%20Brief.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/2022...
- koolba 4y ago
  The intro really sets a great tone right from the start: > The Onion is the world’s leading news publication, offering highly acclaimed, universally revered cover- age of breaking national, international, and local news events. Rising from its humble beginnings as a print newspaper in 1756, The Onion now enjoys a daily read- ership of 4.3 trillion and has grown into the single most powerful and influential organization in human his- tory.
  - irrational 4y ago
    Who knew Supreme Court briefs were so funny? Definitely don’t read this while eating. I almost choked to death from trying to eat while laughing so hard.
- runlevel1 4y ago
  FYI for others: It starts on page 6. It's just 17 pages long, and is very conscious about keeping the reader's attention.
goodluckchuck 4y ago
It’s totally backwards to suggest that all information should be assumed to be true, and that false statements this need disclaimers, and parodies need to be so obvious as to cease to be a parody. The public should confront all claims - no matter the source - with ample skepticism and indeed an assumption that the information is likely false unless proved otherwise. Liability for slander, libel, etc. should only arise if the speaker has gone out of their way to state that their views / claims are true and should be relied upon, or if there’s another special reason why consumers should believe the speaker (eg it’s their doctor, lawyer, etc).
- Retric 4y ago
  Should is rarely as important in these cases as what actually happens. There was a recent case before the Supreme Court where a guy who was legally innocent was still in prison. As in the government’s position was yes he is in prison for something that isn’t illegal, but he had already used up his appeals. One of the Justices started asking if the government was concerned about the number of appeals should this be allowed. The court cares about such things because they are effectively above the rules and could do a great deal of damage.
  - joshuacc 4y ago
    Which case are you referring to? I haven’t heard anything about it.
    - Retric 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_v._Hendrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_v._Hendrix Alito: Are you concerned that every federal prisoner who wants to bring a successive motion is going to claim that this falls within the traditional scope of habeas, and this would be an escape clause that would be invoked again and again and again, and all the district judges are going to have to analyze the traditional scope of habeas to see whether the claim actually falls within that? Feigin responded that he was not concerned with overburdening the federal courts because, in his view, it is rare that a case would fall within the narrow parameters suggested by his position in Jones’ case. Feigin told Alito that Jones’ case constitutes “probably a category of one” in which “somebody is in prison for something that Congress never made a crime.” https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/justice-alito-concerned-that-freeing-legally-innocent-man-from-prison-would-clog-up-the-federal-courts/ https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/justice-alito-concerne...
yucky 4y ago
I always find it most amusing how many fans of the Onion get irrationally angry at the Babylon Bee.
- idlewords 4y ago
  The inflection point sometime in the past two years when the Bee became funnier than the Onion was a pretty sad one for us long-time fans of the latter. The McSweeneysization of formerly good humor sites is one of the great tragedies of our ongoing culture war.
  - puffoflogic 4y ago
    Woah, you can't call the Bee funny on HN.
    - idlewords 4y ago
      I didn't call it funny! Just funnier than the Onion now.
      - spencerflem 4y ago
        I can reccomend the LA Hard Times! Absolutely terrific stuff. Onion is a little sad, just more boring than anything and their website layout is somehow still bad at showing new articles. Was incredible at their peak tho. Bee is too hateful to be funny for me at least :(
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    It’s interesting how this happened, too. First, there’s that the Babylon Bee is independent and The Onion has been just one of several brands under Gizmodo, then Univision, then a PE firm. Independence is an asset when trying to be funny since executive notes have never been known for being creatively freeing. Second, the Bee has a big pool of writers because it has a membership tier that allows pitching headlines. And their membership has grown as they’ve become a news story for things like their suspended Twitter account. So while The Onion’s parent corp was laying off staff, the Babylon Bee was growing its writers and also making more money, which let it hire more editors and producers and hire some of the headline-writing members who had proven themselves. All that led up to being able to produce a high volume of headlines and stories.
supernova87a 4y ago
It's very funny. And I respect the court for allowing it to be filed (as I understand it, amicus briefs need permission to be filed). "...The Onion intends to continue its socially valuable role bringing the disinfectant of sunlight into the halls of power... And it would vastly prefer that sunlight not to be measured out to its writers in 15- minute increments in an exercise yard..." "...The petition for certiorari should be granted, the rights of the people vindicated, and various historical wrongs remedied. The Onion would welcome any one of the three, particularly the first..." Just to clarify though, the case isn't exactly about the right to parody, it's whether an officer of the government should receive qualified immunity if he/she tries to arrest someone who is clearly parodying the government's speech or website. And although the case itself is laughably "small town offended police chief overexercising his power", it's a clear test case.
RickJWagner 4y ago
Babylon Bee better be joining this.

119 points by clockworksoul 4y ago

antiterra 4y ago

Previous discussion in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33076821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33076821

irrational 4y ago
Well, I missed the previous discussion. The brief is a hilarious read, so I’m grateful someone reposted it.

pixl97 4y ago

LegalEagle did a video on this that's pretty funny and insightful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTWonQvXkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTWonQvXkw

dontbenebby 4y ago

Null-Set 4y ago

The brief itself is a good read. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/20221003125252896_35295545_1-22.10.03%20-%20Novak-Parma%20-%20Onion%20Amicus%20Brief.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/2022...

koolba 4y ago
The intro really sets a great tone right from the start: > The Onion is the world’s leading news publication, offering highly acclaimed, universally revered cover- age of breaking national, international, and local news events. Rising from its humble beginnings as a print newspaper in 1756, The Onion now enjoys a daily read- ership of 4.3 trillion and has grown into the single most powerful and influential organization in human his- tory.
- irrational 4y ago
  Who knew Supreme Court briefs were so funny? Definitely don’t read this while eating. I almost choked to death from trying to eat while laughing so hard.
runlevel1 4y ago
FYI for others: It starts on page 6. It's just 17 pages long, and is very conscious about keeping the reader's attention.

goodluckchuck 4y ago

It’s totally backwards to suggest that all information should be assumed to be true, and that false statements this need disclaimers, and parodies need to be so obvious as to cease to be a parody. The public should confront all claims - no matter the source - with ample skepticism and indeed an assumption that the information is likely false unless proved otherwise. Liability for slander, libel, etc. should only arise if the speaker has gone out of their way to state that their views / claims are true and should be relied upon, or if there’s another special reason why consumers should believe the speaker (eg it’s their doctor, lawyer, etc).

Retric 4y ago
Should is rarely as important in these cases as what actually happens. There was a recent case before the Supreme Court where a guy who was legally innocent was still in prison. As in the government’s position was yes he is in prison for something that isn’t illegal, but he had already used up his appeals. One of the Justices started asking if the government was concerned about the number of appeals should this be allowed. The court cares about such things because they are effectively above the rules and could do a great deal of damage.
- joshuacc 4y ago
  Which case are you referring to? I haven’t heard anything about it.
  - Retric 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_v._Hendrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_v._Hendrix Alito: Are you concerned that every federal prisoner who wants to bring a successive motion is going to claim that this falls within the traditional scope of habeas, and this would be an escape clause that would be invoked again and again and again, and all the district judges are going to have to analyze the traditional scope of habeas to see whether the claim actually falls within that? Feigin responded that he was not concerned with overburdening the federal courts because, in his view, it is rare that a case would fall within the narrow parameters suggested by his position in Jones’ case. Feigin told Alito that Jones’ case constitutes “probably a category of one” in which “somebody is in prison for something that Congress never made a crime.” https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/justice-alito-concerned-that-freeing-legally-innocent-man-from-prison-would-clog-up-the-federal-courts/ https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/justice-alito-concerne...

yucky 4y ago

I always find it most amusing how many fans of the Onion get irrationally angry at the Babylon Bee.

idlewords 4y ago
The inflection point sometime in the past two years when the Bee became funnier than the Onion was a pretty sad one for us long-time fans of the latter. The McSweeneysization of formerly good humor sites is one of the great tragedies of our ongoing culture war.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  Woah, you can't call the Bee funny on HN.
  - idlewords 4y ago
    I didn't call it funny! Just funnier than the Onion now.
    - spencerflem 4y ago
      I can reccomend the LA Hard Times! Absolutely terrific stuff. Onion is a little sad, just more boring than anything and their website layout is somehow still bad at showing new articles. Was incredible at their peak tho. Bee is too hateful to be funny for me at least :(
- 1123581321 4y ago
  It’s interesting how this happened, too. First, there’s that the Babylon Bee is independent and The Onion has been just one of several brands under Gizmodo, then Univision, then a PE firm. Independence is an asset when trying to be funny since executive notes have never been known for being creatively freeing. Second, the Bee has a big pool of writers because it has a membership tier that allows pitching headlines. And their membership has grown as they’ve become a news story for things like their suspended Twitter account. So while The Onion’s parent corp was laying off staff, the Babylon Bee was growing its writers and also making more money, which let it hire more editors and producers and hire some of the headline-writing members who had proven themselves. All that led up to being able to produce a high volume of headlines and stories.

supernova87a 4y ago

It's very funny. And I respect the court for allowing it to be filed (as I understand it, amicus briefs need permission to be filed). "...The Onion intends to continue its socially valuable role bringing the disinfectant of sunlight into the halls of power... And it would vastly prefer that sunlight not to be measured out to its writers in 15- minute increments in an exercise yard..." "...The petition for certiorari should be granted, the rights of the people vindicated, and various historical wrongs remedied. The Onion would welcome any one of the three, particularly the first..." Just to clarify though, the case isn't exactly about the right to parody, it's whether an officer of the government should receive qualified immunity if he/she tries to arrest someone who is clearly parodying the government's speech or website. And although the case itself is laughably "small town offended police chief overexercising his power", it's a clear test case.

RickJWagner 4y ago

Babylon Bee better be joining this.