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On second thought, just throw plastic away
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Havoc 4y agoBit pointless without an alternative. We're quite far away from any sort of viable refill based economy 5% is terrible, but better than zero
- Eupraxias 4y agoI think there is value in the conversation, even without a solution. It's enough of a solution to me to understand which plastic is worth my time to recycle, and which is not. As it is, I recycle all of it. It seems this is a waste of some of my time. Time I could use, for example, pondering a solution, etc.
- 40four 4y agoThe alternative is in the title. Unless it’s PET #1 or #2, throw it in the dumpster.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoI don’t think we see floating islands of paper bags and marine life strangled on cotton bag straps. Their measure of the impact of widespread disposable plastic use is carbon emission, which is not the only environmental impact we have. Using products that degrade in nature lets our waste degrade in nature when it ends up in nature.
- dehrmann 4y agoCO2 emission from plastics is pretty small. Only 4% of fossil fuels goes towards plastics, and they mostly last so long that that doesn't even turn into CO2. If CO2 is your concern, there are much larger producers to focus efforts on.
- nroets 4y agoAs the article implies: The source of the plastic in the ocean are poorer Asian countries (India, Vietnam, Cambodia, China). The reason is that these countries lack (a) properly designed landfills (b) the logistics to send all their trash to landfills and (c) a culture of putting trash in bins. Asian countries will not transition to paper bags and cotton bag straps because it's too expensive and not as convenient as plastic.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoThey also note that a lot of developed countries plastic trash ends up in countries with less tight controls. So reducing that export of plastic should help. Finally, just because someone else does something bad doesn’t justify doing it yourself and compounding the problem.
- pixl97 4y agoI'd take a slight step back and say "Recycle things like soda bottles", they are generally PET plastic and a fair amount of infrastructure exists to recycle it. Almost any other kind of plastic goes in the trash.
- hirundo 4y agoThere are youtube videos that take this to an amazing level. People are converting PET bottles into filament and 3D printing all the things. A 1 kilo spool of PETG filament costs around $20. If the process of turning bottles into filaments becomes cheap and easy enough, much larger scale home recycling could become a thing. E.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Pjh18MmXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Pjh18MmXY
- hackeraccount 4y agoPlastic bags are like matches. If there was an increase in the number of fires in the city I live in one approach would be to ban matches. It'd be dumb but you could do that and who knows it might even work. Another approach would be to get people to use matches responsibly. Same with plastic bags. Figure out why people aren't tossing them in a bin and how to get them to do it. Would it be better if there weren't landfills with metric tons of plastic bags in them? Sure but it's way worse if the streets and harbor are filled with plastic bags - from an aesthetic point of view if nothing else.
- zwkrt 4y agoplastic are like cigarette butts. They get used one time for someone’s slight convenience and then litter the landscape for years.
- flaviut 4y agoI've started fires before. It's not easy. It requires a lot of thought and effort. Throwing a bag on the ground, on the other hand... > Figure out why people aren't tossing them in a bin and how to get them to do it. Expected benefit: clean car Expected cost: 0.000% change of $400 fine It's not surprising people behave according to their incentives.
- TheBigRoomXXL 4y agoThis article rant on the imperfect nature of our current solutions for plastic, ignore part of the problems (like the floating island of plastics...) and doesn't provide any alternative solution.
- wazoox 4y agoMostly stop using so much plastic, probably. A lot of plastic (for instance plastic bottles) is being used under pressure from the industry. As long as Coca Cola used glass bottle, it was on them to collect, clean and reuse them. Now that they switched to plastic, it's everyone else's problem. Forbid plastic bottles, and that part of the problem will solve itself.
- taylorhughes 4y agoThe author somehow misses this obvious conclusion.
- readingnews 4y agoYes, how do I do that when every damn thing at every damn store is wrapped in plastic? Sometimes two to three times (the package is plastic wrapped, and each item is also wrapped in plastic)? Food, goods, boxes even wrapped in plastic... We need to change the behaviour of companies wrapping everything in plastic. I do not see that happening soon, and am not sure how to encourage them to do so (plastic is so cheap).
- bliteben 4y agoShort of nationalizing the entire petrochemical industry how do you propose stopping them from just making something else with the current plastic by-products?
- objectivetruth 4y ago
- wazoox 4y ago
- ftyers 4y agoThe article is kind of hysterical, but has some interesting information in. I always wondered what to do with plastic bags and bottles and stuff in places where there is no rubbish collection. Burning seems popular, but despite looking up DIY home incineration it seems like not much effort is being put into this. I also wondered why there aren't deposits on plastic bottles like there are on glass bottles. In the end it should probably be up to the companies who produce them, like Coca Cola to deal with them, but there probably needs to be an incentive to return them.
- moconnor 4y agoHere in Germany there are deposits on plastic bottles for things like coke. The bottles are more sturdy and get re-used multiple times.
- ftyers 4y agoThat's cool, is it mandated by law or did it just work out as more economical?
- oblio 4y agoKnowing the Germans, it's a law.
- coding123 4y agoWhat happens if someone poops in the bottle and then recycles it. I guess that's just the American in me probably. Probably why those efforts die here.
- ftyers 4y agoI guess you'd smell it? And if not does it really matter? Probably you'd be surprised at how much you poop you consume, both your own and other people's or animal's.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
- topaz0 4y agoI think this makes the same mistake that has always been made with respect to plastic -- it assumes the responsibility of making recycling work should fall to the consumer, when it should really be imposed on the producer. If the responsibility and cost were imposed on the packaging manufacturers to make sure that most of the packaging they produce get recycled, they would be forced to find a solution. They could then respond to this by choosing to move away from plastic altogether, or choosing materials that are easier to recycle, or raising prices and using the proceeds to pay for effective collection efforts and so forth. As it stands, the packagers' incentives are all aligned with plastic packaging -- it is cheaper to produce, cheaper to transport, and more versatile than other materials. As it stands, all of the costs of the waste stream from plastics are borne by consumers and the environment.
- andrekandre 4y agoagree, there really needs to be strong negative incentives to reduce plastic packaging... we consumers don't have a choice of "apples in plastic" vs "apples in cardboard" its just whatever the supermarket buys is what we get
- InCityDreams 4y ago>, or raising prices and using the proceeds to pay for effective collection efforts and so forth. Of course, i agree with the proposal, but i fear it would require some serious strongarming from a higher body to actually ensure the monies taken ended up being actually used correctly. Which would probably cost more money.
- topaz0 4y agoIt would take political will, yes.
- nroets 4y agoGermany, Slovakia and a few other countries have pushed the responsibility of recycling PET bottles onto the producers and retailers: There is a 25 cent deposit on a 2 liter PET bottle. Consumers deposit their bottles into machines at the retailer for a 25 c discount on their purchase. Frequently there are queues at those machines. My guess is that people earn less than minimum wage recycling. Hungary (and Romania) have no deposit on their pet bottles, but some retailers do have similar machines. Consumers get 1 forint for every bottle they deposit. That's 1 dollar for every 400 bottles returned! Earlier this year, I found that soda/cola/pop is more expensive in Slovakia than Hungary (at Lidl). So the retailers raise prices, hurting the poor.
- katamarimambo 4y agocity-journal is a far-right rag
- xtracto 4y agoSo what? It is raising some interesting points in a decent way and developing discussion. There are points that make more sense to me than others, and I dont share their conclusions. But I appreciate the discussion it raises. Americans shouldn't be so fast to discount the idea of each other just because they are from the other end of their political spectrum. US politics would improve if both sides avoided that.
- mmartinson 4y agoThe problem is that it frequently detours from interesting discussions points to do things like dump on Greenpeace. Not interesting. Being elsewhere on the political spectrum doesn’t discount the interesting points, it just injects too many wacky ideas to make it possible to engage with. Ratio of density between interesting points and fever swamp ranting too low. Trash rag.
- enragedcacti 4y agoOn the flip side, it publishes and prominently features people like Chris Rufo [1], who openly acknowledges propagandizing and intentionally muddying the waters around topics like CRT [2]. Obviously you can still have a conversation or discuss the points made, but at a certain point it just becomes a waste of time to use people who revel in acting in bad faith as a starting point for a dialogue. Especially when they are far from the only ones discussing the issue: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=false&query=plastic%20recycling&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=fal... [1] https://www.city-journal.org/christopher-rufo-on-woke-education https://www.city-journal.org/christopher-rufo-on-woke-educat... [2] https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416 https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1371540368714428416
- ramesh31 4y ago>Americans shouldn't be so fast to discount the idea of each other just because they are from the other end of their political spectrum. US politics would improve if both sides avoided that. Nah, it just devolves into bad faith ad hominem towards the end. This is no National Review. It's not much more than a rant really.
- spacemunkay 4y agoFor anyone trying to avoid plastic altogether, I've been trying to work on a ProductHunt/Wirecutter-like site for finding better product alternatives: intentfulconsumers.com The gist is to try and make better purchases, while being practical and not having a zealot mindset about it.
- killjoywashere 4y agoIf you buy a latte a day, buy a home espresso machine (Gaggia Classic is pretty optimal) and learn to make a latte instead. They are quite heavy duty, plenty capable of making high quality espresso at home, and it takes less time than waiting in line at your coffee shop. And no paper cups or lids. In fact, here's my complete product list for your consideration and, no doubt, critique. Will say this: I'm 46, everyone in our house drinks coffee, I have tried a fairly wide variety of coffee preparation methods, and my daughter has been a barista at 3 places, including one far, far away. She helped source all this, and purchased another set of the exact same things when she went to college. * Gaggia RI9380/46 Classic Pro: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RQ3NL76/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RQ3NL76/ * Apexstone Espresso scale (20 grams is about right): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JG1PXLC/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JG1PXLC/ * Mueller HyperGrind grinder (30 seconds with a bit of agitation gets about the right grind): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076FJ92M4/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076FJ92M4/ * Lavazza Super Crema whole bean coffee (do not use this for drip or French Press coffee): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SDKDM4/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SDKDM4/ * Widemouth 1 qt Ball jar for the ground coffee out of your grinder: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KMLR79B/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KMLR79B/ * Stainless 58mm tamper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092DSH5NS/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092DSH5NS/ * Rattleware shot glass pitcher: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GZYTIW/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GZYTIW/ * 20 oz frothing pitcher: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016CBMZI/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016CBMZI/ * Coffee knock box: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BDK71TR/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BDK71TR/ * You may want a large jar for whole bean storage, I leave that to you. I reuse a glass jar from some Kirkland cashews (https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/qk36an/my_costco_finally_started_carrying_the_glass_jar/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/qk36an/my_costco_fi...) * Bonus round, here's the best french press I've found: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJJ2SGG/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJJ2SGG/
- realkiddredd 4y agoSeriously, this guy needs to take the Trump flags off the back of his truck before making what might otherwise be legit arguments: plastic is bad, recycling tech at present is poor, maybe even a bust. BUT, so were other technologies at first. It's a problem that needs solving, and at least recycling keeps some awareness of a problem that needs bright people, not another angry conservative blowhard to just say, "ah, fuck it."
- andrekandre 4y agoin japan, plastics like containers are almost always to be sorted out (and cleaned beforehand) and collected on specific days but more often than not, they just stay there and aren't "collected" until the next raw garbage (food etc) and basically burned with everything else cans, pet bottles, cardboard, all taken at the day they are supposed to, but plastic isn't most of the time... and its likely the exact same reasons as the article says: its (sadly) a waste
- draw_down 4y ago
- andrekandre 4y ago> Americans welcomed plastic products and packages because they were so much better than the alternative. Cellophane was considered a marvel because it was both moisture-proof and transparent, keeping food fresher and enabling grocery shoppers to see what they were buying. Advertisements featured housewives rejoicing that disposable plates and glasses freed them from dishwashing chores. just calling it like i see it, but this reads like a sales pitch from the oil industry
- qbrass 4y agoActual cellophane is made from cellulose (hence the name) and is both plant based and biodegradable. The 'plastic wrap' you buy now, however, is likely made from PET.
- sillystuff 4y agoThe original Greenpeace article (the submitted article links to it), is much better than the submitted article. https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/new-greenpeace-report-plastic-recycling-is-a-dead-end-street-year-after-year-plastic-recycling-declines-even-as-plastic-waste-increases/ https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/new-greenpeace-report-pl...
- chrisstu 4y agoIt would be very interesting to see the funding sources of this journal and whether plastic manufacturers are contributors. The plastics industry has created the myth of plastic recycling and perhaps it now wants to undo that as it realizes that the public still wants to get rid of single use plastics.
- alinecmo 4y agoTerrible article. At some point we will have to do something about plastic that's not in our comfort zone. As someone who lives on an island in Brazil, we have tons of plastic from all over the world being washed up on our shore. It's not a "developing countries" problem, our oceans depend on it, our lives depend on it, so forbidding something we can't manage seems like a pretty good solution to me.
- mikestew 4y agoWhy ban products that are cheaper, sturdier, lighter, cleaner, healthier, and better for the environment? If the article begged the question any harder, the local constable would run it out of town.
- kwertyoowiyop 4y agoThe author's know-it-all attitude and intrusive politics make it very hard for me to take the rest of the article seriously. I’m up for a discussion, but not when the starting position is ‘everyone who disagrees with me is a malicious idiot.’
- bwanab 4y agoHow to take a bunch of true facts - and reach a completely unsupportable conclusion. Yes, banning single use plastic is going to be painful and inconvenient, but one could likewise argue that for the addict, going without your drug is painful and inconvenient.
- KptMarchewa 4y agoAlso, no one advocates banning single use syringes.
- tb_technical 4y agoI thought recycling sequesters microplastics?
- dehrmann 4y agoJust burn it like Sweden does.
- onikolas7 4y agoI think this is one of those issues that are presented as a hard/nuanced problem but really isn't. Single use plastic can be banned the same way lead paint is banned. That's only hard to do because of lobbying by Coke&friends. There is some inconvenience for the consumer, like having to return our glass bottles or bringing reusable containers to the supermarket but that's all doable (proof: that's how it was done before). The hard part is forcing corporate to take a profit hit.
- bvoq 4y agoIn Switzerland this just makes sense. Trash bags cost 2$ a piece. Recycling is free. Any violation will result in a huge fine.
- yellowapple 4y ago> The group’s overall policy remains delusional—the report proposes a far more harmful alternative to recycling In what multiverse is reducing the amount of single-use plastic we as a society produce more harmful? Nobody's talking about taking away medical supplies like syringes; those are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to even shopping bags and straws, let alone disposable packaging, let alone fishing nets, let alone all the other things made needlessly disposable and also needlessly made of plastic.