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The US government is pouring a lot of money into subsidizing the cost of spinning up fabs. Additionally, China will help western foundries achieve success becau

The US government is pouring a lot of money into subsidizing the cost of spinning up fabs. Additionally, China will help western foundries achieve success because they want Taiwan.

SanjayMehta 4y ago
> Additionally, China will help western foundries achieve success because they want Taiwan. Can you elaborate on this point?
- jwond 4y ago
  I imagine the logic is that if the US has its own domestic chip production and isn’t so dependent on Taiwanese chips, then the US may not care as much if China invades Taiwan.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Terrible reasoning, but yes I think that's what he means
  - chillwaves 4y ago
    Ignores the fact the island itself acts a buffer to China's SE expansion/projection of power. There is a lot of strategic value to the island, even without the chips.
  - SanjayMehta 4y ago
    That makes sense, and as someone else pointed out, Taiwan has strategic value by itself.
heavyset_go 4y ago
This, the CHIPS act was recently signed. Hundreds of billions are being invested in building onshore fabs.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  The US also has a 5 times bigger military budget than the worlds next 5 biggest militaries combined. How do you explain the fact that the US has been years behind China and Russia in terms of hypersonic missile capabilities? Money alone doesn't make the world go round. Trust does. People work for early stage startups for free because they trust the founders. When I was researching my master thesis 90% of the papers authors were either Chinese or Indian of origin(probably of US universities). A significant number of Chinese-American scientists are making their way back to China for fear of unfair prosecution. Stigmatization of Chinese-Americans during Covid didn't help either. I'd be willing to bet that Japans TSMC fab will be done faster than the US's
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I'm not making any point on whether the US is likely to be successful or not, truthfully I doubt it, however I'm only pointing out that hundreds of billions of dollars were allocated for onshore fabs.
    - rjzzleep 4y ago
      That's a fair point and a lot more than what Europe is doing. They have all the resources and the money that they need to succeed, but I feel like there is a need for a change in attitude for that to happen.
  - steve76 4y ago
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    > How do you explain the fact that the US has been years behind China and Russia in terms of hypersonic missile capabilities? I tell myself someone just had the clarity of mind to refuse to build a doomsday device (hypersonic warheads breaks MAD, or just becomes a new MAD once everyone has them). Happened before with Project Pluto [0] (among other reasons) > The program was terminated in July 1964 by the Department of Defense and the State Department as “being too provocative”. It was believed by many that if the U.S. deployed a missile of such awesome power against which there was no known defense, then the Soviets would be compelled to do so [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto [1] http://www.vought.org/special/html/sslam4.html http://www.vought.org/special/html/sslam4.html
TruthWillHurt 4y ago
Well, subsidizing EVs made Tesla what they are, so maybe?

The US government is pouring a lot of money into subsidizing the cost of spinning up fabs. Additionally, China will help western foundries achieve success because they want Taiwan.

SanjayMehta 4y ago

> Additionally, China will help western foundries achieve success because they want Taiwan. Can you elaborate on this point?

jwond 4y ago
I imagine the logic is that if the US has its own domestic chip production and isn’t so dependent on Taiwanese chips, then the US may not care as much if China invades Taiwan.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Terrible reasoning, but yes I think that's what he means
- chillwaves 4y ago
  Ignores the fact the island itself acts a buffer to China's SE expansion/projection of power. There is a lot of strategic value to the island, even without the chips.
- SanjayMehta 4y ago
  That makes sense, and as someone else pointed out, Taiwan has strategic value by itself.

heavyset_go 4y ago

This, the CHIPS act was recently signed. Hundreds of billions are being invested in building onshore fabs.

rjzzleep 4y ago
The US also has a 5 times bigger military budget than the worlds next 5 biggest militaries combined. How do you explain the fact that the US has been years behind China and Russia in terms of hypersonic missile capabilities? Money alone doesn't make the world go round. Trust does. People work for early stage startups for free because they trust the founders. When I was researching my master thesis 90% of the papers authors were either Chinese or Indian of origin(probably of US universities). A significant number of Chinese-American scientists are making their way back to China for fear of unfair prosecution. Stigmatization of Chinese-Americans during Covid didn't help either. I'd be willing to bet that Japans TSMC fab will be done faster than the US's
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I'm not making any point on whether the US is likely to be successful or not, truthfully I doubt it, however I'm only pointing out that hundreds of billions of dollars were allocated for onshore fabs.
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    That's a fair point and a lot more than what Europe is doing. They have all the resources and the money that they need to succeed, but I feel like there is a need for a change in attitude for that to happen.
- steve76 4y ago
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  > How do you explain the fact that the US has been years behind China and Russia in terms of hypersonic missile capabilities? I tell myself someone just had the clarity of mind to refuse to build a doomsday device (hypersonic warheads breaks MAD, or just becomes a new MAD once everyone has them). Happened before with Project Pluto [0] (among other reasons) > The program was terminated in July 1964 by the Department of Defense and the State Department as “being too provocative”. It was believed by many that if the U.S. deployed a missile of such awesome power against which there was no known defense, then the Soviets would be compelled to do so [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto [1] http://www.vought.org/special/html/sslam4.html http://www.vought.org/special/html/sslam4.html

TruthWillHurt 4y ago

Well, subsidizing EVs made Tesla what they are, so maybe?