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Considering these are the teams that put their thumbs on the scale during the 2020 election by censoring the New York Post, I'm not sure much has been lost here

Considering these are the teams that put their thumbs on the scale during the 2020 election by censoring the New York Post, I'm not sure much has been lost here. They later reversed the decision long after the election when they could no longer deny they censored the truth. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/technology/twitter-new-york-post.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/technology/twitter-new-yo...

px43 4y ago
ethanbond 4y ago
Seems like a poor approach to just throw out a system based on a fault case (or two, or ten, or at Twitter’s scale, immense amounts of iffy and bad corner cases).
- chitowneats 4y ago
  Seems important that there would be some sort of reform when there has been no mea culpa whatsoever by the perpetrators. Quietly issuing a reversal 6 months after the election does not count. Maybe I'm just not aware, but was there an official change in policy after this debacle? I assume it remained business as usual at Twitter until about a week ago.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    What would have been an appropriate mea culpa in your view?
    - perfecthjrjth 4y ago
      Name and shame, and fire them. That's the best approach in these kind of issues.
      - pcwalton 4y ago
        "Naming and shaming" and firing people for something that we now all agree didn't happen? The claim was that articles about Hunter Biden's laptop were disallowed from Twitter until 6 months after the election. This is false.
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        What on earth? “The best approach” is to throw your employees under the bus and personally shame them in public on a matter that could very legitimately put themselves and their families at risk? Get real.
  - mtmail 4y ago
    > but was there an official change in policy after this debacle Yes, they changed their https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materials https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materi... according to https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/twitter-changes-its-hacked-materials-policy-in-wake-of-new-york-post-controversy/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/twitter-changes-its-hacked...
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      - pcwalton 4y ago
        The explanation is in the article. Twitter's policy changes around hacked materials didn't apply retroactively, so it didn't affect the suspension of the New York Post's account, which occurred because of violations of the hacked materials policy that happened before the change.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        That particular explanation is awful. Changes newly allowing things should almost always be retroactive.
shadowfiend 4y ago
> They later reversed the decision long after the election when they could no longer deny they censored the truth. > With just a few weeks to go before the Nov. 3 vote, […] Twitter underlined just how fluid its policies were when it began letting users share links to an unsubstantiated New York Post article about Hunter Biden that it had previously blocked from its service. This link literally says the opposite of what you are saying.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  You're right. I'm wrong about the timing after hastily re-reading this article. They allowed the article to be shared a few weeks before the election. They kept the NY Post account banned until October 31st. 1 week before the election.[1] This was meaningful censorship of a right-leaning news organization. It would not have happened were the shoe on the other foot at a liberal bastion like Twitter. The solution to the problem is to greatly pare back the type of moderation allowed by the platform. Elon seems to be implementing this.[2] 1. https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/twitter-unblocks-new-york-post-hunter-biden-hacked-materials-1234820449/ https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/twitter-unblocks-new-y... 2. https://nypost.com/2022/04/26/elon-musk-says-suspending-ny-post-from-twitter-was-incredibly-inappropriate/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/26/elon-musk-says-suspending-ny-p...
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Eh, not obvious at all it wouldn’t have happened the other direction. There are obviously hairy questions with deciding whether to propagate material that’s 1) definitely hacked and 2) potentially tampered with by an adversary. I think Twitter made the wrong call but it’s not like this was the Pentagon Papers or the Lewinsky story.
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      Imagine if Twitter had suspended Vox, the NYT, or any other beloved liberal news org. You can't. Impossible. How much unsubstantiated stuff about Donald Trump was propagated by these outlets for years? What's the fundamental difference between opposition research like the Steele Dossier, and "hacking"? Imagine the outrage if Elon tomorrow decided to suspend one of these news orgs, even with only a few days to go before the election. Compare that to the crickets we hear about the NY Post.
mtmail 4y ago
Non-paywalled article from same day https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/daily-crunch-twitter-new-york-post/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/daily-crunch-twitter-new-y... says the censored article was about Hunter Bidens laptop. What is the truth about about the laptop story and why would the story have influenced the election?
- lupire 4y ago
  If Candidate Biden's son did something shady to make a $million, it would motivate people to vote for the man who embezzled $100M with his sons.
- HideousKojima 4y ago
  The laptop was later confirmed to be legit by several outlets: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-... Several of the emails found on the laptop make it look as though Hunter was selling influence/access to his father to foreign companies and other foreign entities. Whether or not Joe was in on it is not certain, but several of the foreign parties Hunter was working with certainly seemed to think it got them something of value.
  - RavingGoat 4y ago
    No it was not.

px43 4y ago

ethanbond 4y ago

Seems like a poor approach to just throw out a system based on a fault case (or two, or ten, or at Twitter’s scale, immense amounts of iffy and bad corner cases).

chitowneats 4y ago
Seems important that there would be some sort of reform when there has been no mea culpa whatsoever by the perpetrators. Quietly issuing a reversal 6 months after the election does not count. Maybe I'm just not aware, but was there an official change in policy after this debacle? I assume it remained business as usual at Twitter until about a week ago.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  What would have been an appropriate mea culpa in your view?
  - perfecthjrjth 4y ago
    Name and shame, and fire them. That's the best approach in these kind of issues.
    - pcwalton 4y ago
      "Naming and shaming" and firing people for something that we now all agree didn't happen? The claim was that articles about Hunter Biden's laptop were disallowed from Twitter until 6 months after the election. This is false.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      What on earth? “The best approach” is to throw your employees under the bus and personally shame them in public on a matter that could very legitimately put themselves and their families at risk? Get real.
- mtmail 4y ago
  > but was there an official change in policy after this debacle Yes, they changed their https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materials https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materi... according to https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/twitter-changes-its-hacked-materials-policy-in-wake-of-new-york-post-controversy/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/twitter-changes-its-hacked...
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    - pcwalton 4y ago
      The explanation is in the article. Twitter's policy changes around hacked materials didn't apply retroactively, so it didn't affect the suspension of the New York Post's account, which occurred because of violations of the hacked materials policy that happened before the change.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        That particular explanation is awful. Changes newly allowing things should almost always be retroactive.

shadowfiend 4y ago

> They later reversed the decision long after the election when they could no longer deny they censored the truth. > With just a few weeks to go before the Nov. 3 vote, […] Twitter underlined just how fluid its policies were when it began letting users share links to an unsubstantiated New York Post article about Hunter Biden that it had previously blocked from its service. This link literally says the opposite of what you are saying.

chitowneats 4y ago
You're right. I'm wrong about the timing after hastily re-reading this article. They allowed the article to be shared a few weeks before the election. They kept the NY Post account banned until October 31st. 1 week before the election.[1] This was meaningful censorship of a right-leaning news organization. It would not have happened were the shoe on the other foot at a liberal bastion like Twitter. The solution to the problem is to greatly pare back the type of moderation allowed by the platform. Elon seems to be implementing this.[2] 1. https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/twitter-unblocks-new-york-post-hunter-biden-hacked-materials-1234820449/ https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/twitter-unblocks-new-y... 2. https://nypost.com/2022/04/26/elon-musk-says-suspending-ny-post-from-twitter-was-incredibly-inappropriate/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/26/elon-musk-says-suspending-ny-p...
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Eh, not obvious at all it wouldn’t have happened the other direction. There are obviously hairy questions with deciding whether to propagate material that’s 1) definitely hacked and 2) potentially tampered with by an adversary. I think Twitter made the wrong call but it’s not like this was the Pentagon Papers or the Lewinsky story.
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    Imagine if Twitter had suspended Vox, the NYT, or any other beloved liberal news org. You can't. Impossible. How much unsubstantiated stuff about Donald Trump was propagated by these outlets for years? What's the fundamental difference between opposition research like the Steele Dossier, and "hacking"? Imagine the outrage if Elon tomorrow decided to suspend one of these news orgs, even with only a few days to go before the election. Compare that to the crickets we hear about the NY Post.

mtmail 4y ago

Non-paywalled article from same day https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/daily-crunch-twitter-new-york-post/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/16/daily-crunch-twitter-new-y... says the censored article was about Hunter Bidens laptop. What is the truth about about the laptop story and why would the story have influenced the election?

lupire 4y ago
If Candidate Biden's son did something shady to make a $million, it would motivate people to vote for the man who embezzled $100M with his sons.
HideousKojima 4y ago
The laptop was later confirmed to be legit by several outlets: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-... Several of the emails found on the laptop make it look as though Hunter was selling influence/access to his father to foreign companies and other foreign entities. Whether or not Joe was in on it is not certain, but several of the foreign parties Hunter was working with certainly seemed to think it got them something of value.
- RavingGoat 4y ago
  No it was not.