5 ms·

Comcast, Time Warner, ATT, all the mobile providers have been doing this in the US for years. It makes sense to me to do this for something like Starlink that h

by Dig1t 4y ago

Comcast, Time Warner, ATT, all the mobile providers have been doing this in the US for years. It makes sense to me to do this for something like Starlink that has actual limitations based on spectrum/physical availability of chunks of metal hurtling around the planet.

manuelabeledo 4y ago
Just because there is a cartel that has been operating for decades on these terms, that does not mean that new competitors should use the same playbook. In contrast, Google Fiber does not have data caps.
- remus 4y ago
  I think the parents point is that starlink has an actual reason to cap usage (because launching satellites into space is expensive), much more so than traditional providers anyway.
  - wtallis 4y ago
    Congestion should be managed by throttling heavy users only at the point of congestion, during congested times. Applying a per-month cap is ridiculously coarse and is more about punishing users than discouraging behavior that the network cannot reasonably support.
    - praxulus 4y ago
      I would much prefer an explicit data cap known ahead of time to random unexpected throttling.
      - kixiQu 4y ago
        Unfortunately, with the former, you still really get both, since everyone starts the month uncapped...
      - wtallis 4y ago
        It's not a binary choice. The throttling at the point of congestion is unavoidable (though the ISP can choose to be more or less fair about this throttling). The monthly cap is optional.
    - kjksf 4y ago
      Starlink is doing exactly what you want them to do. During congestion they have no choice but to throttle everyone hence lower speed "at the point of congestion". The new addition is not really a data cap. When you reach 1 TB they'll throttle you, but only when they have to. They won't throttle if there's enough bandwidth for you. The cap basically identifies "heavy users". So quite literally Starlink is doing exactly what you described as the ideal solution: during congestion they are throttling heavy users.
      - mbreese 4y ago
        If that's the case, then they should advertise it as unlimited with throttling when you hit a certain threshold. That's at least consistent with how ATT/Verizon wireless internet use the term, etc... It's honestly really a confusing way to state things, because it's shown as "1TB of priority access during peak access times". Which would seem to me to be a completely meaningless measure. What are peak access times? How can I measure my priority access during peak access times? It seems overly complicated to me. I'd rather they just say -- "We will throttle your access at peak congestion times, if necessary. During these times, your priority will be based on your monthly cumulative usage."
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        > What are peak access times? How can I measure my priority access during peak access times? It seems overly complicated to me. Peak times is most of the day, it says so next to the chart showing the limits. The starlink website has a data use graph you can look at. It seems very uncomplicated to me. Maybe if I adjust your explanation it'll make sense? "When the network is congested, if you have used more than 1TB this month, you may be throttled. Data use between 11PM and 7AM will not count toward the limit."
    - Veedrac 4y ago
      The cap is exactly that, if I read correctly? After you hit it, you still get non-priority service without extra charge.
    - supertrope 4y ago
      Comcast has that https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6057 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6057
- Dig1t 4y ago
  You're definitely correct, and in the cities where Google Fiber operates, conveniently, other providers do not have data caps as well. The solution to this problem is to encourage more things like Google Fiber and break up the horrible monopolistic system we have now. I just think, if anyone should get some understanding for the situation, it should be Starlink, based on the constraints of their tech.
adoxyz 4y ago
Yeah and it's a total scam. When I moved into my new house, I called up Cox to see if I could get Fiber installed. They said, "Wow your area is the first in the region to get 2GBPS for $150/mo". I was excited and asked if there would be a data cap, and the rep said yeah 1TB/mo. So I could use up all the allotment in an hour or so I asked, and he said "yup, or you can pay an extra $75 to get unlimited bandwidth". No Thanks. Got CenturyLink Quantum Fiber, 1GBPS at my house for a flat rate of $65.00/mo and no data caps.
- corytheboyd 4y ago
  Moved away from Denver up into the mountains and I really miss my 1Gbps $65/mo internet -_-

by Dig1t 4y ago

manuelabeledo 4y ago

Just because there is a cartel that has been operating for decades on these terms, that does not mean that new competitors should use the same playbook. In contrast, Google Fiber does not have data caps.

remus 4y ago
I think the parents point is that starlink has an actual reason to cap usage (because launching satellites into space is expensive), much more so than traditional providers anyway.
- wtallis 4y ago
  Congestion should be managed by throttling heavy users only at the point of congestion, during congested times. Applying a per-month cap is ridiculously coarse and is more about punishing users than discouraging behavior that the network cannot reasonably support.
  - praxulus 4y ago
    I would much prefer an explicit data cap known ahead of time to random unexpected throttling.
    - kixiQu 4y ago
      Unfortunately, with the former, you still really get both, since everyone starts the month uncapped...
    - wtallis 4y ago
      It's not a binary choice. The throttling at the point of congestion is unavoidable (though the ISP can choose to be more or less fair about this throttling). The monthly cap is optional.
  - kjksf 4y ago
    Starlink is doing exactly what you want them to do. During congestion they have no choice but to throttle everyone hence lower speed "at the point of congestion". The new addition is not really a data cap. When you reach 1 TB they'll throttle you, but only when they have to. They won't throttle if there's enough bandwidth for you. The cap basically identifies "heavy users". So quite literally Starlink is doing exactly what you described as the ideal solution: during congestion they are throttling heavy users.
    - mbreese 4y ago
      If that's the case, then they should advertise it as unlimited with throttling when you hit a certain threshold. That's at least consistent with how ATT/Verizon wireless internet use the term, etc... It's honestly really a confusing way to state things, because it's shown as "1TB of priority access during peak access times". Which would seem to me to be a completely meaningless measure. What are peak access times? How can I measure my priority access during peak access times? It seems overly complicated to me. I'd rather they just say -- "We will throttle your access at peak congestion times, if necessary. During these times, your priority will be based on your monthly cumulative usage."
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        > What are peak access times? How can I measure my priority access during peak access times? It seems overly complicated to me. Peak times is most of the day, it says so next to the chart showing the limits. The starlink website has a data use graph you can look at. It seems very uncomplicated to me. Maybe if I adjust your explanation it'll make sense? "When the network is congested, if you have used more than 1TB this month, you may be throttled. Data use between 11PM and 7AM will not count toward the limit."
  - Veedrac 4y ago
    The cap is exactly that, if I read correctly? After you hit it, you still get non-priority service without extra charge.
  - supertrope 4y ago
    Comcast has that https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6057 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6057
Dig1t 4y ago
You're definitely correct, and in the cities where Google Fiber operates, conveniently, other providers do not have data caps as well. The solution to this problem is to encourage more things like Google Fiber and break up the horrible monopolistic system we have now. I just think, if anyone should get some understanding for the situation, it should be Starlink, based on the constraints of their tech.

adoxyz 4y ago

Yeah and it's a total scam. When I moved into my new house, I called up Cox to see if I could get Fiber installed. They said, "Wow your area is the first in the region to get 2GBPS for $150/mo". I was excited and asked if there would be a data cap, and the rep said yeah 1TB/mo. So I could use up all the allotment in an hour or so I asked, and he said "yup, or you can pay an extra $75 to get unlimited bandwidth". No Thanks. Got CenturyLink Quantum Fiber, 1GBPS at my house for a flat rate of $65.00/mo and no data caps.

corytheboyd 4y ago
Moved away from Denver up into the mountains and I really miss my 1Gbps $65/mo internet -_-