4 ms·

> the contract you “agreed” to means you are legally not allowed to take them to a real court. Your only recourse is arbitration. americans can sign away their

> the contract you “agreed” to means you are legally not allowed to take them to a real court. Your only recourse is arbitration. americans can sign away their rights to sue at their own courts? That seems wrong. For me, as a german, the paypal contract reads that i can escalate a conflict to the EU consumer protection agency or the french regulatory authority for financial institutions (which signs their banking license). It further reads that the governing body of law and court of of justice should be in Wales, but that this does not limit my consumer right to sue at my local court. No arbitration clause, especially no mandatory arbitration with an agency of the corporations choice. I do understand the idea that private arbitration may be cheaper than court proceedings, but is mandatory arbitration even legally enforceable, or is that just scary text a court would overrule?

indymike 4y ago
> americans can sign away their rights to sue at their own courts? That seems wrong. You still have immediate access to the courts if you are challenging the legality of the contract (i.e. something is actually against the law in the contract or you are claiming the contract is so unjust it should be allowed ). If it's just a dispute under the terms of the agreement, you usually have to do arbitration and then you can go to court. Every time I've done arbitration, the outcome has been pretty fair (which to me, means I won) and even a better experience that US Courts are. US Courts use an adversarial system, so if you don't spend a lot of time in courtrooms (which I don't), it's not a pleasant place to be even when you win.
staticman2 4y ago
The U.S. congress passed a law a while back making arbitration terms in contracts legally enforceable.
gnopgnip 4y ago
The US Paypal terms also allow you to take the case to small claims. Mandatory arbitration can be enforceable if certain requirements are met. The big difference between the EU and US is the American rule, each side bears their own costs. Lawyers might be $300 an hour, so arbitration can be a lot less expensive for everyone
pie_flavor 4y ago
There is always a clause saying you can opt out of the arbitration stranglehold in writing, it'd be unenforceable if there wasn't. It's just that nobody gives enough of a damn to utilize it, and it's time-gated, so by the time you actually run into a dispute, you're already stuck.

indymike 4y ago

> americans can sign away their rights to sue at their own courts? That seems wrong. You still have immediate access to the courts if you are challenging the legality of the contract (i.e. something is actually against the law in the contract or you are claiming the contract is so unjust it should be allowed ). If it's just a dispute under the terms of the agreement, you usually have to do arbitration and then you can go to court. Every time I've done arbitration, the outcome has been pretty fair (which to me, means I won) and even a better experience that US Courts are. US Courts use an adversarial system, so if you don't spend a lot of time in courtrooms (which I don't), it's not a pleasant place to be even when you win.

staticman2 4y ago

The U.S. congress passed a law a while back making arbitration terms in contracts legally enforceable.

gnopgnip 4y ago

The US Paypal terms also allow you to take the case to small claims. Mandatory arbitration can be enforceable if certain requirements are met. The big difference between the EU and US is the American rule, each side bears their own costs. Lawyers might be $300 an hour, so arbitration can be a lot less expensive for everyone

pie_flavor 4y ago

There is always a clause saying you can opt out of the arbitration stranglehold in writing, it'd be unenforceable if there wasn't. It's just that nobody gives enough of a damn to utilize it, and it's time-gated, so by the time you actually run into a dispute, you're already stuck.