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Bass: The physical sensation of sound (2015)
- pyinstallwoes 4y agoExcerpt from an article on sound waves / pressure and the sensations and effects related to various dB levels at cycle times.
- thro1 4y ago.. There was this French bloke at the turn of the 20th century who built a giant whistle that produced sub-bass frequencies of around 7.1 or 7.2 Hz. The first time that he got it to work, he liquidized himself. It just turned his insides to mush—poor bugger. https://djtechtools.com/2014/04/10/funktion-ones-tony-andrews-on-setting-up-soundsystems-from-wembley-stadium-to-your-bedroom/ https://djtechtools.com/2014/04/10/funktion-ones-tony-andrew... Someone knows more about it ?
- yellowapple 4y agoMaybe Vladimir Gavreau? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Gavreau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Gavreau EDIT: who may or may not be the same as this "Professor Gavraud": https://www.dickbowdler.co.uk/content/publications/A_Short_History_of_the_Dangers_of_Infrasound.pdf https://www.dickbowdler.co.uk/content/publications/A_Short_H...
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- soared 4y agoThose are incredibly interesting reads, thank you!
- iancmceachern 4y agoYeah, this is good stuff. The device could kill a person at 5 miles away, but was just as dangerous to its operators as to its enemy. It could deliver tens of thousands of watts. Wow.
- 6stringmerc 4y agoPerfect doomsday MAD device for something important but automated
- dylan604 4y agoSo is that the official frequency of the brown note?
- iancmceachern 4y agoFrom looking at the patents I think it's less about a specific frequency and more about a power level. Infrasonics are defined as less than 20hz and higher than geologic vibrations like once ever hundred seconds or so. If I'd guess it's somewhere between .5 and 10 hz, but again it's not about playing something of that frequency, it's about delivering tens of thousands of watts to the air which just happens to be at that frequency
- dylan604 4y ago"who built a giant whistle that produced sub-bass frequencies of around 7.1 or 7.2 Hz. The first time that he got it to work, he liquidized himself" specifically talking about frequencies liquefying someone. the quoted comment mentioned nothing about power levels. the TFA is talking about power levels. that's a different conversation than the one you replied
- iancmceachern 4y agoThat's my point, it's not the frequency that liquifys someone. You could easily play a 7.1 hz sound on a good thx sub or concert sound system. Simply playing that tone would not liquefy someone. At the same time, one could play a 6 hz or a 7.3 hz tone at the same power level as this guy did, and it would liquefy someone. The frequency is the result of a bunch of other variables that are the true drivers of the phenomenon. Power level, physical properties of air and the limits to the power you can couple to it before cavitation and negative pressure regions occurs, resonance, and the geometry of your device. Put that all together, get it ringing, constructively interfering, and it will be at a certain frequency. It's the result of the equation, not the input.
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- Maursault 4y ago> at sound pressure levels above 166 dB, and at 171 to 173 That's pretty loud. At takeoff, the outside of turbofan aircraft engines are around 140dB. 130dB is where pain begins. Hardly anyone can hear 1Hz, but a few are cursed with subsonic hearing.
- taejavu 4y ago“Pretty loud” is an understatement because decibel is a logarithmic scale - every 6dB increase is an apparent doubling of loudness. Also, no-one can hear 1hz - for us it’s a rhythm, not a tone. A grandfather clock ticks at roughly that rate, as a matter of fact (well, twice that rate if you count both the “tick” and the “tock”.
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- lucb1e 4y ago3 dB difference is a doubling/halving of amplitude. Not sure if that's what you meant with apparent loudness?
- ravel-bar-foo 4y agoEnergy of a wave is proportional to the square of amplitude, so I guess they took the square of the doubled amplitude in dB.
- taejavu 4y agoI mean how loud it sounds, the subjective “volume”. It’s not exact, but it’s a useful rule of thumb.
- Maursault 4y ago> Also, no-one can hear 1hz True, except for those cursed with subsonic hearing that can hear frequencies below 8Hz down to sub Hz frequencies, and which is painful for them even at low sound pressures and from great distances, bizarre because these waves can be over 34,000x the diameter of the human ear drum.
- the_jeremy 4y ago170 dB sounds massive, but when you convert to force/area, we're only talking about an extra 0.06 atmospheres of pressure[0] [0]:https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/en-US/sound-pressure-level/2-9/pascal-sound%20pressure%20level%20in%20decibels/ https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/en-US/sound-p...
- IIAOPSW 4y agoIf the dB is high enough but the frequency is low enough, the "sound" is actually just a light breeze.
- Dylan16807 4y agoThe minimum wind speed to reach hurricane status has a pressure level of 130kg/m^2. That's 156dB. 170dB as a breeze is up around 160mph.
- IIAOPSW 4y agoSure. The sustained wind of a hurricane could be thought of as a 0 Hz 156 dB sound wave. A more ordinary passing breeze, the sort that we consciously recognize as a breeze rather than as a sound, lasts for around 1-10 seconds. So we could just as well describe an ordinary breeze as noise in the .1-1 Hz part of the spectrum somewhere above 100 dB of loudness (guessing). Alternatively, sound is just a breeze too fast for direct conscious perception.
- Dylan16807 4y agoAn atmosphere doesn't sound like a lot, but it's actually a very large amount. 0.06 atmospheres of pressure, coming from one side, is half a ton of pressure on your body.
- iancmceachern 4y ago170 dB is super high, like a shotgun blast or a jet engine close by, or a hurricane. This video goes into detail on dB ratings. It makes the point that these truck air horns that are labeled 300db on Amazon are actually many thousands of times more powerful than the Krakatoa blast, and would actually expde our planet. Spoiler, the air horn aren't actually 300 dB, they're more like 100-115. https://youtu.be/zAe9qvC49qY https://youtu.be/zAe9qvC49qY
- rramadass 4y agoVery fascinating. I got interested in trying to understand the Science of Sound/Acoustical Engineering after reading the reviews of various Earphones/IEMs/etc. and of course "Hi-Res" audio equipment. A lot of it made no scientific sense and seemed to be completely subjective not withstanding their astronomical prices. The field seems to be plagued by gallons of "Snake-Oil". Can somebody suggest some good books/sites on the following? 1) Study of "Signals and Systems" but using Sound Waves as examples. 2) The effect of Sound on Humans (and on living tissue in general).
- ezconnect 4y agoIt's a very broad topic you need to be more specific. Ultrasound can heat up tissues that's the reason why there's a time limit when doing ultrasound on babies and the machines beeps nonstop when the time is up.
- rramadass 4y agoI thought my questions were specific? 1) This is a standard "Signals and Systems" course for Analog/DSP engineering but where i would like to see practical hands-on labs using Sound Vibrations/Waves. 2) This consists of two major parts; One is the perception of Sound through the auditory pathway (including bone conducting) and the other is via the whole body (via what the article calls mechanoreceptors/thermoreceptors). How does it affect the Brain/Nervous System itself?
- iancmceachern 4y agoFor #1 there are a couple great youtube channels that cover a lot of the technical background on drivers and control systems (amplifiers) as well how to objectively compare and test audio setups. 1 - PS audio https://youtube.com/c/PSAudiochannel https://youtube.com/c/PSAudiochannel and 2 - Tech Ingredients https://youtube.com/c/TechIngredients https://youtube.com/c/TechIngredients In this tech Ingredients video they go over some really well performing but very simple and low cost to make speaker and amp set, as well as a test setup to do objective comparison tests on different designs. https://youtu.be/GslJ8Hf4WwE https://youtu.be/GslJ8Hf4WwE For #2 I've actually done quite a bit of work with sound and the body, in designing medical devices. It's interesting, sound travels very well through the body, why bone conduction headphones and ultrasound work so well. Most of the good info on sound and it's interaction with the body I've found to be in clinical and scientific papers. I hope something here helps!
- zoba 4y agoI once attended a Bassnectar concert and he did live up to his name by giving the most distinctive bass performance I’ve ever experienced. As the show started he launched into heavy bass and the girl next to me immediately started crying and I found it difficult to control breathing. My throat and chest were so rattled it was difficult to effectively move air in and out.
- Rodeoclash 4y agoSounds great! But seriously, I know exactly the feeling you're talking about. My wife and I went to a Darkside concert while she was about 6 months pregnant. The baby didn't move for a few days afterwards and we went to the doctor about it (who laughed, and said that they weren't in any danger).
- thepasswordis 4y agoOh my god that must have been absolutely terrifying. Glad everything was okay. Can’t imagine the interim.
- club_tropical 4y agoLongest few days of your life, I bet.
- spike021 4y agoOne time he played at San Jose State University while I was living in the brick dorms next door and I distinctly remember feeling the bass even from outside that show.
- 6stringmerc 4y agoI ran in some heavy drum and bass circles willingly for years and one guy had a 1,000 watt 18” pa speaker in his 15x15’ rehearsal studio and it could be weaponized.
- ck2 4y agoMakes you wonder if 17-18hz is used for torture and "riot control"
- pyinstallwoes 4y agoUsually it's higher frequencies so it's directed. See: "LRADs and Sound Cannons Are NOT Safe. Here's How To Minimize Their Effects. " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek
- EricHaptics 4y agoThis is fun, I do haptics for a living and I would have never expected to have something to say here. The way around the seat shaking problem is to use wideband vibrotactile actuators tuned to respond between 10 and 250 Hz on different part of the body. They can be embedded is seat or on a vest. The mechanical energy transfer is local, can be tuned individually, and consumes much less energy. There are also several successful products leveraging this principle like the Razer Hypersense line, feel belt, and others. A recent company acquired by Meta, Lofelt, started their tech doing exactly this. If you want to jump into the haptics rabbit hole, I animate a podcast [0] with some industry folks. Fascinating topics. [0]: www.thehapticsclub.com
- pyinstallwoes 4y agoI make Techno. I would like to "feel" the sub in a way that doesn't require me to have a subwoofer. I know of things like Subpac but they don't sell them anymore. Do you know of anything else like this or if it is relatively easy to make one?
- EricHaptics 4y agoQuite easy to build. The problem is to get ahold of the parts. Get a well know console controller, take out the two actuators and mount them in any other form factors you like. You can drive them with an audio pipeline, they are effectively a 4 ohm speaker. Attach them to a sound card and you can have your stereo haptics subwoofers. You have to filter out aggressively the resonance frequency of the actuator to get a flattish response. Not that subpac or the other folks do so
- clolege 4y agoHow many watts can those handle? I would imagine wanting something more powerful.
- EricHaptics 4y agoNo idea, worst case scenario the stator comes out and you find your limit :) The key is to mount them properly on the body to maximize mechanical coupling. You don’t need a lot of watts if the losses are almost zero. If you want more, build an array of actuators and spread them out. More immersive feeling compared to a stronger one.
- dvh 4y agoInteresting video on bass I've posted month ago: philosophy of bass: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1xPO2Q2QHXk https://youtube.com/watch?v=1xPO2Q2QHXk
- 6stringmerc 4y agoI’ve wondered about actually trying to set up a festival field or something with buried subwoofer type frequency generators so you could literally be shaking the ground in time with Skrillex
- whycombinetor 4y agoNo need to put them inside the ground. A line array of 21"s sitting on top of the ground will do all the ground shaking you could ask for, especially in an indoor venue.
- tomcam 4y agoPlaying standup bass, electric bass, and drums are unique musical experiences. You feel them in your gut. It’s therapy right along with music. When you’re in the pocket no one doubts who’s leading the band.
- bjelkeman-again 4y agoOur drummer hits hard. I don’t complain much, as I then can turn up the volume on my bass amp. You really feel the notes in your body. (Just don’t forget the hearing protection.)
- Mizza 4y agoI love bass. I have build a very large, "dub" soundsystem, which uses a 6,000 amplifier, 18" speakers and folded-horn cabinets which way literally half of a ton. It can literally shake the paint off of walls. I also have tinnitus so bad that it's very disruptive to my life (which I had before I discovered the joy of big bass). One thing that I've discovered is that playing large amounts of tactile bass will make the tinnitus go away completely for a few days after playing, with the benefit lasting to some extent for a few weeks after. I've researched it and talked to some specialists who suggest there is a physiological basis for this effect, but that has not been properly explored.
- gwnywg 4y agoOne of my ears has significant hearing loss, and in the same time it's still very good at bone conduction of low frequencies tones. I can literally feel that neighbor from two floors above is playing basses, even though my spause won't notice this. There are times this forces me to go out since I cannot 'opt out' from sensing this. So one thing I'd like to say to audiophiles, please be aware that something beautiful to you might be causing lots of distress to people around you..