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New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups
- PStamatiou 15y agoThe reporter/camera man was surprised I stopped for coffee 3 times during the day. Maybe that's why I talk so fast..
- danberger 15y agoIs that Malcolm Gladwell in the coffee shop at 2:53?
- josephcohen 15y agoyup
- jeremyrwelch 15y agoand Nat Turner at the office
- AznHisoka 15y agoThere should be a startup that has versus wars between 2 startups everyday, decided by fans.
- kellysutton 15y agoI'll just leave this here: http://kellysutton.tumblr.com/post/901431677/choosing-new-york-over-san-francisco http://kellysutton.tumblr.com/post/901431677/choosing-new-yo...
- keecham 15y agoThe one thing I didn't quite like when I heard PG speak at one of YCombinator's events in NYC was his insistence that you need to move to the Valley in order to launch a successful startup. Even at a seed-stage, there's great funds out there (TechStars Network among others) that happily invest in people all over the country.
- nicholasjbs 15y agoyou need to move to the Valley in order to launch a successful startup pg didn't say that at YC NYC. He said he thought that the Valley was still better than New York, but that New York was now good enough that startups could succeed there. He also said he no longer tries to convince founders to stay in the Valley if they're planning on moving back to New York after YC.
- leak 15y agoFun video. I want some coffee. I think there is something to be said about being in the valley and being part of the collective. But, I also think being in other places (ie: LA, ATL, etc) gives you a different perspective on what you're working on. And, for me, having everyone in the coffee shop be part of startup is a bit of a burnout. No escape.
- forensic 15y agoSounds like PR hit for New York venture capital.
- davidhansen 15y agoMeanwhile, those of us continuing to succeed in the "tech backwaters" of the US will be forever amused by the smug self-satisfaction coming out of the "cool" cities. This little spat being just one example.
- thomasgerbe 15y agoYep, there's nothing cool about either of these cities. It stinks here. The nightlife is poor, the people are stupid, the pay is low, the food terrible, and there is no culture. The amount of successful startups is overly exaggerated. There's maybe one. I think most are in Iowa or Austin. Rent is expensive so please no one come to NY or SF.
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- jcr 15y agoYou might want to give the following a read: http://www.paulgraham.com/hubs.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hubs.html
- ibagrak 15y agoThe conversation at the next table in NY is usually about real estate, hedge funds or some wild combination of the two. In SF, it's about the next Dropbox... for cats... on Facebook. Either way you are screwed. Every city is an echo chamber in its own right.
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- aarontait 15y agoI love how good content about what's actually going on in America has a tendency to come from the foreign press.
- Aloisius 15y agoIf this is a fight, I'm pretty sure only one side is fighting it. I don't remember the last time I had a conversation about NY startups or NY vs SF with anyone who wasn't from NY. I find all the coverage of NY vs. SF rather strange. For the most part, we don't really compete for the same money or for the same talent. Quite often we don't even compete for the same users.
- nknight 15y agoI'm particularly annoyed with the synonymization of "San Francisco" and "Silicon Valley". They are not the same thing.
- Aloisius 15y agoHaving grown up in Silicon Valley, I can honestly say that what people consider to be Silicon Valley today was not anything close to what it was 20 years ago. So I don't take it so seriously anymore. Since San Jose went from the gateway to Silicon Valley to the Heart of Silicon Valley, I feel like San Francisco, which is actually part of the Peninsula, can be part of SV.
- nknight 15y agoI've only been here six years, and truth be told I avoid SF at all costs, but all I have to do is look at the job listings. SF listings are full of every Social Web Media Infinity-point-Fad known to man. South Bay -- Platforms, infrastructure, embedded systems, established technologies, emphasis on availability and reliability. This is what the San Francisco startups rely on to make sure their new web startup doesn't fall over at the first sign of traffic. One might see this as the traditional Silicon Valley maturing and even stagnating in comparison to San Francisco's young, hip, fast-moving culture, but I don't think it's reasonable to treat them as a unified entity.
- thomasgerbe 15y agoWell I think it has to do with how difficult it is to find affordable office real estate for businesses that outgrow their space. I can't imagine a company as big as Google or Facebook having their HQ in SF without having to build a giant skyscraper in the Financial District.
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- zerathree 15y agoAm I the only one who thinks this video is silly? ... you need to roll your sleeves, work hard, and don't give up. It's not the city that makes startups, it's you.
- reledi 15y agoIn pg's words: "The best one can say is: if you're in a startup hub, unexpected good things will probably happen to you, especially if you deserve them. [...] I'm not saying it's impossible to succeed in a city with few other startups, just harder. If you're sufficiently good at generating your own morale, you can survive without external encouragement."
- rmorrison 15y agoEven in the video, they're both talking more about Silicon Valley than NYC = )
- dr_ 15y agoIt's not clear whether by San Francisco this article is referring to Silicon Valley, but assuming that's the case - NYC has nowhere near the tech ecosystem that the Valley has in place. In the Valley you have the full gamut of software and hardware companies and everything in between. In NYC, you have a mix of pure software startups that have had some success, combined with the typical industries which have deployed technology in a unique way (like Gilt Groupe - where, apparently, only 5% of the employees actually work in tech: http://gigaom.com/2011/11/22/gilt-groupe-ipo/ http://gigaom.com/2011/11/22/gilt-groupe-ipo/ ), and the majority of software engineers in NYC still work for banks. It's going to take another decade to realize whether or not NYC has any real potential here.
- untog 15y agoThat's only the case if you NYC intends to follow in Silicon Valley's exact footsteps. IMO, it would be stupid to. As you say, NYC's tech ecosystem isn't as big. But its finance ecosystem is bigger. Also media, and fashion. I'm pretty confident that NYC can map out it's own path, playing to the city's strengths. I don't think it needs to have the same tech ecosystem that SV has.
- jaysonelliot 15y agoAs a New Yorker looking longingly westward, I have a question. Is the Valley the only place it makes sense to be, or is it feasible to live in the East Bay? I know the real answer is that it doesn't matter where you are if you're the right person working on the right project. That said, I want to be somewhere that the social environment is a positive one for someone living off his savings while trying to build a product and a company. Things like a good coworking space and people who keep you motivated and inspired can help a lot, in my opinion. The only thing is, I want to move west for a nicer home life and standard of living, I just don't want to leave city life altogether. That's why I'm thinking of living in Oakland or Berkeley, and working in SF. Bay Area residents, what do you think?
- kloncks 15y agoNot sure about Berkeley, but when I moved out here I was told one consistent thing about housing, "don't live in Oakland"
- pagekalisedown 15y agoOakland is gentrifying and isn't so bad. Richmond (the city, not the district), that's one place I'd stay away from.
- skurry 15y agoI just saw today that Oakland is in the top 5 of the most dangerous cities in the US. I know those Top Anything lists have to be taken with a grain of salt, but Oakland seems to be in the (local) news constantly, and it's mostly not good news. After having lived in the Bay Area for 4+ years, I've been to Oakland only once, and that was to help someone move out of Oakland. I think I'd rather move to San Jose if I wanted some city life, real estate prices there have come down a bit. Avoid the east side though.
- Arelius 15y agoUgh, live in San Jose? Never. Statistically, Oakland may be dangerous, but it's also physically a large city. If you are in the right parts, you'll certainly be as safe as if you lived in Berkeley, and safer then a lot of parts of SF. Just stay in the nice parts of the City. I haven't actually ever lived in Oakland though, but I've lived in Berkeley for 5 years, live in SF now, and have many close friends who live in Oakland. Parts of it are very nice!
- goodweeds 15y agoEvery few months for the past decade or so I've seen articles like this comparing the bay area to New York or Seattle. It seems that the New York and Seattle companies all fall off the face of the earth a few minutes after I read the article, never to be heard from again. I think that Seattle just isn't large enough to really matter in the start-up world, and New York has too many bankers and too few engineers. Bankers don't create value or innovate, they just arbitrage. How can you innovate in a culture filled with young, aggressive alpha male frat-boys entirely lacking in empathy who would rather snort coke and go to strip clubs than stay up all night brainstorming or .. working with hackers?
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- sliverstorm 15y agoIt's funny how little press Austin gets, considering the size of the tech community out there.
- cmdrreiki 15y agoWe don't mind. We're doing just fine without more west coast transplants complaining about the heat :)
- zalambar 15y agoWhen I see these location discussions I'm always curious how much of an impact non-compete clauses play in starting or recruiting for a startup. California has "16600. Except as provided in this chapter, every contract by which anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind is to that extent void." and without such employee protection in place I would be very nervous about trying to start a company which might compete with a former employeer. Similarly it seems hard enough to find talented designers and developers already without having to consider that the individuals with the most relevant experience might be barred from completing with their current employers.
- igorgue 15y agoBlablabla... we are all fools, thinking it's on our hands to decide where the hub is. It's the VCs that decides that, if they want you in fuckin' Kansas (no offense to Kansas) I bet you all would move there.
- dsolomon 15y agoWhat fight? There's an abundance of tech personnel.
- jsherry 15y agoThe NYC v. SF/SV debate might be a headline grabber, but frankly there's no data supporting the fact that NYC is catching up tp the west coast. A more interesting discussion can be found when comparing NY to Mass when it comes to tech: http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/venture-capital/new-york-venture-capital-widens-tech-gap-massachusetts-q1-2011 http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/venture-capital/new-york-vent... We haven't published the updated figures through Q3, but the trend continues: NY is consistently outpacing Mass in venture tech investment and has been dating back to 2010. We don't publish a similar comaprison of NYC vs. SF/SV for obvious reasons: it's not very interesting. But NYC has made recognizable strides in building a tech ecosystem over the past couple years nonetheless.
- timjahn 15y agoWe could spend a lot of time and energy trying to figure out what city is the "coolest" for startups and produces the most innovative new social photo sharing app. Or we could simply spend all that time and energy on building our businesses from wherever we are. I'm doing the latter (from Chicago).