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Before going into the details of the new Rust release, we'd like to draw attention to... [political cause] The cause in this case is undeniably worthy, its an

Before going into the details of the new Rust release, we'd like to draw attention to... [political cause] The cause in this case is undeniably worthy, its an awful situation in an often crappy world, but what does it have to do with this release? Where do you start and stop with the issue-raising in technical release news?

Vecr 4y ago
Iranian women must be armed with the best weaponry available. Support Iranian women by programing the next generation suicide drone in Rust today!
netule 4y ago
You can skip over the paragraph and get to the meat of it. If you don't like it, don't read it.
- rat9988 4y ago
  Hopefully you'll do the same with comments you don't like.
  - jimcavel888 4y ago
cshimmin 4y ago
The answer to your question is right there in the sentence. They would like to draw attention to it.
FartyMcFarter 4y ago
> Where do you start and stop with the issue-raising in technical release news? You start and stop exactly where you want to - no one owes you or anyone else technical release news without this kind of statement.
- insanitybit 4y ago
  Thanks, I feel like people are always trying to make sure everything is done in some super formal way. The authors decided to put this in so they did, they don't need some formalized criteria for "Good Movement" or whatever.
rob74 4y ago
That paragraph also got me wondering why they're not drawing attention to, for example, the Human Rights situation in China. Maybe because that might draw the ire of the powerful Chinese state? Or to the situation in Saudi Arabia, where women have even fewer rights than in Iran. Maybe because Saudi Arabia, unlike Iran, is a US ally?
- dagmx 4y ago
  This whataboutism is pointless. It is not their duty to refer to each and every issue in the world. It is their right however to express the view for whatever they choose. Why read further into it? They never said they don’t care about those other things. It is possible for humans to mention a specific cause without also negating all others. Seriously, what is wrong with the logical reasoning of some people?
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    Maybe because selectively caring about specific issues while ignoring others is a form of political bias. I know people love to shout whataboutism whenever someone points out legitimate hypocrisy rather than confront the hypocrisy.
    - dagmx 4y ago
      Where’s the hypocrisy? You’re projecting that they don’t care about the other causes. That’s your own fault not theirs. Maybe they have some women on their team who are particularly moved by this event? Maybe they have some Iranian expats? Maybe they’re unaware of the extent of other issues? Maybe it doesn’t matter because again , saying one supports a specific cause doesn’t mean they don’t support others. There is zero hypocrisy here. There are only logical fallacies from people reading too far into things.
    - e12e 4y ago
      > Maybe because selectively caring about specific issues while ignoring others is a form of political bias. There's generally three options when it comes to politics; do nothing, do something, do everything. The first does not help anyone, and the last; being impossible - is a path back to the first (via burn-out, apathy or simply inefficiency ("scope creep"). So the only real option is to do "something" - and champion a few causes.
blablablerg 4y ago
reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU
beezlewax 4y ago
It would be nice to not have politics permeate every aspect of our lives. Just to give people room to breathe. Everyone knows about whats happening in Iran already. There was no real benefit to making a declaration here via a rust release. Best keep these things for social media.
- aussiesnack 4y ago
  > There was no real benefit to making a declaration here via a rust release Some people do think human solidarity, outside of stereotypically 'political' contexts, is a benefit in itself. I know many Iranians (accident of history - my mother adopted 2 Iranian refugees when I was in my teens). I showed this to one friend, who heard last week a 20 year old nephew of hers had been gunned down by the IRGC. She burst into tears and hugged me and told me how much this kind of expression kept hope alive. Politics is physical reality, which tends to mug those who prefer to look away. If it mugs you merely via a sentence you prefer not to read, rather than a bullet or hammer, I suspect you can probably cope.
OnionBlender 4y ago
Who decides which issue gets mentioned in these announcements? Is there a vote among the Rust members?
- burntsushi 4y ago
  As a Rust team member, I have no earthly clue. Maybe it's the Core team? Or the blog author? Or the release team? Also no clue whatsoever as to the process for determining which cause to promote or even which causes are not allowed to be promoted (if any?). So now I'm curious... Let's look. The blog is on github, and this is the commit that added it: https://github.com/rust-lang/blog.rust-lang.org/pull/1043/commits/c2ff1c1fd83cb0daf3bc5b659c97e79b919778a6 https://github.com/rust-lang/blog.rust-lang.org/pull/1043/co... What is the "leadership chat"? See: https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2022/10/06/governance-update.html https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2022/10/06/governance...
  - VancouverMan 4y ago
    Are there any publicly accessible transcripts or recordings of the discussions that this governance structure engages in? Can we see if any of the participants objected to the inclusion of this material, for example?
    - burntsushi 4y ago
      I believe the only publicly available output of this team has been whatever has been published to the Inside Rust blog. If you read the blog post I linked in my previous comment (their most recent one), it outlines their plans. For full disclosure, this leadership chat was created in the fallout of the mod team resigning (of which I was a member). And I think it's a good thing, because it's getting a bunch of people talking that weren't talking before. And, as the blog post outlined, they're working towards producing an RFC to revamp part of Rust governance. Which... I think is needed. It's just that... they are also making other decisions now. Whether that's beyond their mandate or not, I don't know. But it's certainly continuing the tradition of the Core Team, which started doing this a couple years ago. And whether they were within their mandate to do such things is also not clear to me.
ostenning 4y ago
Its common place these days for tech organizations to promote social and political issues. The issue for me here is - what if hypothetically the political viewpoint is misguided? What if this was 2003 and the statement said "Due to the newly found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we stand in solidarity with the American government for its war against terror"? I don't think a tech organization should be making such statements in their release notes, which is essentially telling people what should be thought of as right, or wrong, or how to think about a particular issue. To me its reflective of a potentially dangerous trend that everyone _must_ be an activist and have some kind of alignment. All I care about is the new and improved logic flow syntax of Rust.
- celeritascelery 4y ago
  I feel like this trend is starting to come full circle. We went through a time where companies and organizations felt like they needed to be political activists in all their docs and announcements. And for a while it felt like questioning the activism was questioning the validity of the cause. But it feels like more people are recognizing that politics doesn't need to pervade every part of our lives. It is okay for technical release notes to only be technical release notes, regardless of what current events are.
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  You don't need to look back to 2003; you can find a direct analogue of that war in the social discourse today.
- aliqot 4y ago
  Where I live, there's a Kony2012 guy still in town. I respect his resolve. I could let it get to me but he seems passionate so meh, let people do what makes them happy. I can skip the rhetoric if it bothers me.
- vvillena 4y ago
  Unlike Rust code, activism is an area where statements have a chance to be incorrect or misguided. And just like Rust code, you're welcome to review anything you read, and see if you like it or not. The whole point of activism is to bring issues to an audience that wasn't prepared to hear such statements at a given time: this is why some people get annoyed when they read Notepad++ release notes for the first time! Being "right" doesn't have anything to do with activism: there's lots of activism within, say, flat earthers, but that doesn't make Earth any less round. Still, in this particular point in time, stating support for women in Iran is probably the mildest form of activism anyone could push for.
otikik 4y ago
> What does it have to do with this release? To me it means that at least one person involved with developing Rust cares about this. I think skipping past it I am not personal interested is a small sacrifice for me to make, considering that I get a new Rust version for free.
skocznymroczny 4y ago
- spoiler 4y ago
  I never saw Rust as political. It's maybe socially progressive in the sense that it's community shuns abusive behaviour towards minorities, but every community should strive for that, IMO. Also, while I agree there are some horrible people who were associated with the CoC movement early on, I think it's unfair to judge the whole idea/project by those people. Also, I'm aware there are some poor CoCs that maintainers abuse, but that's true of any system! Also, there's nothing wrong with being either leftist or rightist, as long as both sides can have a civil conversation! And there's nothing wrong with empowerment! As an example, you're clearly confident enough to be able to voice your opinions, but some people still aren't, and some who are now but weren't before were empowered to be more confident. So there's nothing wrong with empowering people.

Vecr 4y ago

Iranian women must be armed with the best weaponry available. Support Iranian women by programing the next generation suicide drone in Rust today!

netule 4y ago

You can skip over the paragraph and get to the meat of it. If you don't like it, don't read it.

rat9988 4y ago
Hopefully you'll do the same with comments you don't like.
- jimcavel888 4y ago

cshimmin 4y ago

The answer to your question is right there in the sentence. They would like to draw attention to it.

FartyMcFarter 4y ago

> Where do you start and stop with the issue-raising in technical release news? You start and stop exactly where you want to - no one owes you or anyone else technical release news without this kind of statement.

insanitybit 4y ago
Thanks, I feel like people are always trying to make sure everything is done in some super formal way. The authors decided to put this in so they did, they don't need some formalized criteria for "Good Movement" or whatever.

rob74 4y ago

That paragraph also got me wondering why they're not drawing attention to, for example, the Human Rights situation in China. Maybe because that might draw the ire of the powerful Chinese state? Or to the situation in Saudi Arabia, where women have even fewer rights than in Iran. Maybe because Saudi Arabia, unlike Iran, is a US ally?

dagmx 4y ago
This whataboutism is pointless. It is not their duty to refer to each and every issue in the world. It is their right however to express the view for whatever they choose. Why read further into it? They never said they don’t care about those other things. It is possible for humans to mention a specific cause without also negating all others. Seriously, what is wrong with the logical reasoning of some people?
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Maybe because selectively caring about specific issues while ignoring others is a form of political bias. I know people love to shout whataboutism whenever someone points out legitimate hypocrisy rather than confront the hypocrisy.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    Where’s the hypocrisy? You’re projecting that they don’t care about the other causes. That’s your own fault not theirs. Maybe they have some women on their team who are particularly moved by this event? Maybe they have some Iranian expats? Maybe they’re unaware of the extent of other issues? Maybe it doesn’t matter because again , saying one supports a specific cause doesn’t mean they don’t support others. There is zero hypocrisy here. There are only logical fallacies from people reading too far into things.
  - e12e 4y ago
    > Maybe because selectively caring about specific issues while ignoring others is a form of political bias. There's generally three options when it comes to politics; do nothing, do something, do everything. The first does not help anyone, and the last; being impossible - is a path back to the first (via burn-out, apathy or simply inefficiency ("scope creep"). So the only real option is to do "something" - and champion a few causes.

blablablerg 4y ago

reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU

beezlewax 4y ago

It would be nice to not have politics permeate every aspect of our lives. Just to give people room to breathe. Everyone knows about whats happening in Iran already. There was no real benefit to making a declaration here via a rust release. Best keep these things for social media.

aussiesnack 4y ago
> There was no real benefit to making a declaration here via a rust release Some people do think human solidarity, outside of stereotypically 'political' contexts, is a benefit in itself. I know many Iranians (accident of history - my mother adopted 2 Iranian refugees when I was in my teens). I showed this to one friend, who heard last week a 20 year old nephew of hers had been gunned down by the IRGC. She burst into tears and hugged me and told me how much this kind of expression kept hope alive. Politics is physical reality, which tends to mug those who prefer to look away. If it mugs you merely via a sentence you prefer not to read, rather than a bullet or hammer, I suspect you can probably cope.

OnionBlender 4y ago

Who decides which issue gets mentioned in these announcements? Is there a vote among the Rust members?

burntsushi 4y ago
As a Rust team member, I have no earthly clue. Maybe it's the Core team? Or the blog author? Or the release team? Also no clue whatsoever as to the process for determining which cause to promote or even which causes are not allowed to be promoted (if any?). So now I'm curious... Let's look. The blog is on github, and this is the commit that added it: https://github.com/rust-lang/blog.rust-lang.org/pull/1043/commits/c2ff1c1fd83cb0daf3bc5b659c97e79b919778a6 https://github.com/rust-lang/blog.rust-lang.org/pull/1043/co... What is the "leadership chat"? See: https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2022/10/06/governance-update.html https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2022/10/06/governance...
- VancouverMan 4y ago
  Are there any publicly accessible transcripts or recordings of the discussions that this governance structure engages in? Can we see if any of the participants objected to the inclusion of this material, for example?
  - burntsushi 4y ago
    I believe the only publicly available output of this team has been whatever has been published to the Inside Rust blog. If you read the blog post I linked in my previous comment (their most recent one), it outlines their plans. For full disclosure, this leadership chat was created in the fallout of the mod team resigning (of which I was a member). And I think it's a good thing, because it's getting a bunch of people talking that weren't talking before. And, as the blog post outlined, they're working towards producing an RFC to revamp part of Rust governance. Which... I think is needed. It's just that... they are also making other decisions now. Whether that's beyond their mandate or not, I don't know. But it's certainly continuing the tradition of the Core Team, which started doing this a couple years ago. And whether they were within their mandate to do such things is also not clear to me.

ostenning 4y ago

Its common place these days for tech organizations to promote social and political issues. The issue for me here is - what if hypothetically the political viewpoint is misguided? What if this was 2003 and the statement said "Due to the newly found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we stand in solidarity with the American government for its war against terror"? I don't think a tech organization should be making such statements in their release notes, which is essentially telling people what should be thought of as right, or wrong, or how to think about a particular issue. To me its reflective of a potentially dangerous trend that everyone _must_ be an activist and have some kind of alignment. All I care about is the new and improved logic flow syntax of Rust.

celeritascelery 4y ago
I feel like this trend is starting to come full circle. We went through a time where companies and organizations felt like they needed to be political activists in all their docs and announcements. And for a while it felt like questioning the activism was questioning the validity of the cause. But it feels like more people are recognizing that politics doesn't need to pervade every part of our lives. It is okay for technical release notes to only be technical release notes, regardless of what current events are.
TechBro8615 4y ago
You don't need to look back to 2003; you can find a direct analogue of that war in the social discourse today.
aliqot 4y ago
Where I live, there's a Kony2012 guy still in town. I respect his resolve. I could let it get to me but he seems passionate so meh, let people do what makes them happy. I can skip the rhetoric if it bothers me.
vvillena 4y ago
Unlike Rust code, activism is an area where statements have a chance to be incorrect or misguided. And just like Rust code, you're welcome to review anything you read, and see if you like it or not. The whole point of activism is to bring issues to an audience that wasn't prepared to hear such statements at a given time: this is why some people get annoyed when they read Notepad++ release notes for the first time! Being "right" doesn't have anything to do with activism: there's lots of activism within, say, flat earthers, but that doesn't make Earth any less round. Still, in this particular point in time, stating support for women in Iran is probably the mildest form of activism anyone could push for.

otikik 4y ago

> What does it have to do with this release? To me it means that at least one person involved with developing Rust cares about this. I think skipping past it I am not personal interested is a small sacrifice for me to make, considering that I get a new Rust version for free.

skocznymroczny 4y ago

spoiler 4y ago
I never saw Rust as political. It's maybe socially progressive in the sense that it's community shuns abusive behaviour towards minorities, but every community should strive for that, IMO. Also, while I agree there are some horrible people who were associated with the CoC movement early on, I think it's unfair to judge the whole idea/project by those people. Also, I'm aware there are some poor CoCs that maintainers abuse, but that's true of any system! Also, there's nothing wrong with being either leftist or rightist, as long as both sides can have a civil conversation! And there's nothing wrong with empowerment! As an example, you're clearly confident enough to be able to voice your opinions, but some people still aren't, and some who are now but weren't before were empowered to be more confident. So there's nothing wrong with empowering people.