5 ms·

You don't know me, writing about high caste and whatnot. I remember having $30 in the bank, sleeping in my car in Detroit, and being awakened by gunshots near W

You don't know me, writing about high caste and whatnot. I remember having $30 in the bank, sleeping in my car in Detroit, and being awakened by gunshots near Wayne State Univ. The reason I'm grateful for what we have is that I'll never forget those days. I forgive you since you wrote out of ignorance.

maslam 4y ago
Well written and kind response. Thank you for doing this. We could use a bit more of this on HN.
- mythhouse 4y ago
  > The 'high' or 'dominant' castes make up more that more than 90% of Indian migrants as per a study in 2016. > The backward castes of South Asia, known as Dalits, form 1.5% of all Indian immigrants to the United States Calling me ignorant and a passive aggressive "forgive you" without actually addressing my comment isn't "kind". GP came here with a stem degree worth millions of dollars in lifetime earnings , NOT $30 in pocket ( which was used as a proof of "not privileged" ) Grossly misrepresenting oneself and denying privilege is not kind.
  - hardware2win 4y ago
    >GP came here with a stem degree worth millions of dollars Degree helps you at the beginning of the career After you have exp and knowledge It becomes less and less relevant It is impossible to predict value of degree Just like the value of connections
    - mythhouse 4y ago
      > It is impossible to predict value of degree Surely a stem degree and an opportunity to get a post graduate stem degree in a blazing hot tech market is worth more than $30. Do you really think GP and a venezuelan asylee have same amount of privilege because they both came over with $30 in their pockets. Yet that was the logic GP used to justify his lack of privilege.
      - hardware2win 4y ago
        All im saying is that you are probably giving degree too much value You guys over there seem to be treating degree like the only way to better life
        felix_n 4y ago
        Read it over again Magoo: the subject is a specific kind of degree and how it opens doors for a specific industry in the Bay Area. A specific industry known for being insanely competitive and requiring almost comical qualifications to get in. Put the pieces together.
        hardware2win 4y ago
        I still stand with my point Degree is not worth this much.
        krageon 4y ago
        A degree gets you in the door at all and starts you off with a higher salary (I would say significantly so) than someone with no comparable education. Those two things are a huge advantage, both in terms of money and in terms of the odds that you will be able to start making it at all.
        hardware2win 4y ago
        Thats what i wrote - degree makes your start easier, but with years of exp. it becomes less and less relevant So the biggest salary gap is at the beginning and later everything is up to the skill If you want fancy jobs like Jane Street then "just" degree from random school may not be enough
        tstrimple 4y ago
        Your opinion is contradicted by reality. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/?sh=64c1c62c35cd https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-...
  - complexmango 4y ago
    Astounding to see racism and ignorance represented as virtue signaling so blatantly! Are you aware that the majority of STEM seats in Indian colleges are set aside for either affirmative action for ‘lower’ castes (itself an arbitrary criteria) and women? The average man in India is competing for approx 10% of college seats! And saying an Indian STEM degree is worth millions in lifetime earnings reveals even more ignorance - outside of a handful of colleges, the India higher education system is considered woefully inadequate, underfunded, pumping out graduates who only succeed out of personal initiative. Every major corporation in India essentially has a retraining program to actually teach what’s necessary for work. The worker training issue is one of the top challenges faced by businesses there. Perhaps it’s time you described your own ethnicity and background etc. Let’s learn a little more about where your biases flow from. If you actually grew up in India in the time period of the OP, or knew anything about it other than nonsense in woke publications, you would feel ashamed for your tone and envy and render a sincere apology to the OP.
    - mythhouse 4y ago
      I merely quoted some stats, stats are not racist. I read through your rant but didn't see an explanation of why only upper caste Indians are emigrating to usa. whats that about? How do only 30% of Indians make up 90+% indians in USA.
    - random314 4y ago
      > Are you aware that the majority of STEM seats in Indian colleges are set aside for either affirmative action for ‘lower’ castes (itself an arbitrary criteria) and women? And these seats are never filled and go to upper castes anyway? My class was supposed to be 50% low caste with 25% Dalits in a class of 60. There were literally 2 Dalits in my class. And of late, the OBC categories are being crowded in by upper castes through political action. A whole 50% of my class was actually "payment seats" where they paid double the fees to get seats with low entrance scores. Basically, a 50% quota for the privileged.
      - garfieldnate 4y ago
        Curious non-Indian here, how did you know that there were exactly two Dalits in your class? Is this a thing people talk about? Were they open about it? Or do you just recognize them on sight?
mythhouse 4y ago
I apologize for "high caste" assumption . you didn't address the crux of my comment. You came here with an education and momentum for success which is worth way more than whats in your pockets. Only a minuscule portion of Indian population has that privilege to get that education and immigrate to the states. Do you really belive you got into that tiny tiny population purely by your own hard work. Your comment portrays you on par with a poor mexican immigrant who just crossed over. You both had $30 in your pockets when your came over but you credit your success to "have worked hard" implying the mexican immigrant didn't "work hard" as yourself.
- rayiner 4y ago
  What is the value of an Indian education? You overlook the stark difference between rich people in a poor country, and poor people in a rich country. My dad came here with an education, sure. But his village school in Bangladesh had no walls! He had to take a boat to school during monsoon season. That’s what qualified as elite back home at the time. Add in the fact that affirmative action isn’t about poor people. There are vanishingly few kids at Harvard who grew up in the projects in NYC. You’re comparing two groups of people who are comfortably middle class based on their grandfather’s status.
  - throw__2sdfw 4y ago
    Its not the value of Indian education, its about having the right in the first place. Education was plainly denied in the name of caste(religious entitlement) and only very few had access to education until recently. As a side effect of british colonilzation everyone had access to education. But still it took several decades after independence(1947) for some one to get college level education. Vast majority of indians are first person to go college. Now the op has a kid who is about to enter college which means when he arrived to USA he was already had access to college level education although had little money. The
- random314 4y ago
  Pay careful attention to his wording. He has not denied his high caste. He is upper caste. If he was lower caste, he is being hypocritical as he would have benefited from affirmative action in India.
ashwagary 4y ago
>The reason I'm grateful for what we have is that I'll never forget those days. Dont forget to be grateful to the black people affirmative action was originally intended to help. They are the only reason you were allowed into the US and could become naturalized. They spent their limited political capital fighting for you when they didnt need to.
- jlkuester7 4y ago
  > They are the only reason you were allowed into the US and could become naturalized. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is meant as hyperbole. Still I feel like this comment falls into the same rut that has lead to the current college admissions debate. Advocating for poor people does not have to be seen as an attempt to disenfranchise or minimize the opportunities of racial minorities.
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    Not hyperbole. Without the black civil rights fight, Asians wouldnt be able to migrate to the US and become naturalized. Black Americans arent just poor or racial minorities, they were systematically robbed of the vast majority of their "early US investor" wealth by the state for centuries. They dont and shouldnt fall into the same category of other "racial minorities" and white women when it comes to these programs.
random314 4y ago
You came here with a strong educational background, either high school or Bachelor's in engineering and significant money in your sponsoring parents bank account. You are privileged, and I know it because I wanted to study in the United states for a master's degree but my parents couldn't afford it. The students who were able to afford an education in the United states were the rich kids in my class, and 100% of them were upper caste. Most American students graduate with a 100K+ debt burden. How much debt did you have on graduation? I forgive you for being blind to your upper caste privileges. Having said that, I believe SAT scores should be the key factor in admissions.

maslam 4y ago

Well written and kind response. Thank you for doing this. We could use a bit more of this on HN.

mythhouse 4y ago
> The 'high' or 'dominant' castes make up more that more than 90% of Indian migrants as per a study in 2016. > The backward castes of South Asia, known as Dalits, form 1.5% of all Indian immigrants to the United States Calling me ignorant and a passive aggressive "forgive you" without actually addressing my comment isn't "kind". GP came here with a stem degree worth millions of dollars in lifetime earnings , NOT $30 in pocket ( which was used as a proof of "not privileged" ) Grossly misrepresenting oneself and denying privilege is not kind.
- hardware2win 4y ago
  >GP came here with a stem degree worth millions of dollars Degree helps you at the beginning of the career After you have exp and knowledge It becomes less and less relevant It is impossible to predict value of degree Just like the value of connections
  - mythhouse 4y ago
    > It is impossible to predict value of degree Surely a stem degree and an opportunity to get a post graduate stem degree in a blazing hot tech market is worth more than $30. Do you really think GP and a venezuelan asylee have same amount of privilege because they both came over with $30 in their pockets. Yet that was the logic GP used to justify his lack of privilege.
    - hardware2win 4y ago
      All im saying is that you are probably giving degree too much value You guys over there seem to be treating degree like the only way to better life
      - felix_n 4y ago
        Read it over again Magoo: the subject is a specific kind of degree and how it opens doors for a specific industry in the Bay Area. A specific industry known for being insanely competitive and requiring almost comical qualifications to get in. Put the pieces together.
        hardware2win 4y ago
        I still stand with my point Degree is not worth this much.
        krageon 4y ago
        A degree gets you in the door at all and starts you off with a higher salary (I would say significantly so) than someone with no comparable education. Those two things are a huge advantage, both in terms of money and in terms of the odds that you will be able to start making it at all.
        hardware2win 4y ago
        Thats what i wrote - degree makes your start easier, but with years of exp. it becomes less and less relevant So the biggest salary gap is at the beginning and later everything is up to the skill If you want fancy jobs like Jane Street then "just" degree from random school may not be enough
        tstrimple 4y ago
        Your opinion is contradicted by reality. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/?sh=64c1c62c35cd https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-...
- complexmango 4y ago
  Astounding to see racism and ignorance represented as virtue signaling so blatantly! Are you aware that the majority of STEM seats in Indian colleges are set aside for either affirmative action for ‘lower’ castes (itself an arbitrary criteria) and women? The average man in India is competing for approx 10% of college seats! And saying an Indian STEM degree is worth millions in lifetime earnings reveals even more ignorance - outside of a handful of colleges, the India higher education system is considered woefully inadequate, underfunded, pumping out graduates who only succeed out of personal initiative. Every major corporation in India essentially has a retraining program to actually teach what’s necessary for work. The worker training issue is one of the top challenges faced by businesses there. Perhaps it’s time you described your own ethnicity and background etc. Let’s learn a little more about where your biases flow from. If you actually grew up in India in the time period of the OP, or knew anything about it other than nonsense in woke publications, you would feel ashamed for your tone and envy and render a sincere apology to the OP.
  - mythhouse 4y ago
    I merely quoted some stats, stats are not racist. I read through your rant but didn't see an explanation of why only upper caste Indians are emigrating to usa. whats that about? How do only 30% of Indians make up 90+% indians in USA.
  - random314 4y ago
    > Are you aware that the majority of STEM seats in Indian colleges are set aside for either affirmative action for ‘lower’ castes (itself an arbitrary criteria) and women? And these seats are never filled and go to upper castes anyway? My class was supposed to be 50% low caste with 25% Dalits in a class of 60. There were literally 2 Dalits in my class. And of late, the OBC categories are being crowded in by upper castes through political action. A whole 50% of my class was actually "payment seats" where they paid double the fees to get seats with low entrance scores. Basically, a 50% quota for the privileged.
    - garfieldnate 4y ago
      Curious non-Indian here, how did you know that there were exactly two Dalits in your class? Is this a thing people talk about? Were they open about it? Or do you just recognize them on sight?

mythhouse 4y ago

I apologize for "high caste" assumption . you didn't address the crux of my comment. You came here with an education and momentum for success which is worth way more than whats in your pockets. Only a minuscule portion of Indian population has that privilege to get that education and immigrate to the states. Do you really belive you got into that tiny tiny population purely by your own hard work. Your comment portrays you on par with a poor mexican immigrant who just crossed over. You both had $30 in your pockets when your came over but you credit your success to "have worked hard" implying the mexican immigrant didn't "work hard" as yourself.

rayiner 4y ago
What is the value of an Indian education? You overlook the stark difference between rich people in a poor country, and poor people in a rich country. My dad came here with an education, sure. But his village school in Bangladesh had no walls! He had to take a boat to school during monsoon season. That’s what qualified as elite back home at the time. Add in the fact that affirmative action isn’t about poor people. There are vanishingly few kids at Harvard who grew up in the projects in NYC. You’re comparing two groups of people who are comfortably middle class based on their grandfather’s status.
- throw__2sdfw 4y ago
  Its not the value of Indian education, its about having the right in the first place. Education was plainly denied in the name of caste(religious entitlement) and only very few had access to education until recently. As a side effect of british colonilzation everyone had access to education. But still it took several decades after independence(1947) for some one to get college level education. Vast majority of indians are first person to go college. Now the op has a kid who is about to enter college which means when he arrived to USA he was already had access to college level education although had little money. The
random314 4y ago
Pay careful attention to his wording. He has not denied his high caste. He is upper caste. If he was lower caste, he is being hypocritical as he would have benefited from affirmative action in India.

ashwagary 4y ago

>The reason I'm grateful for what we have is that I'll never forget those days. Dont forget to be grateful to the black people affirmative action was originally intended to help. They are the only reason you were allowed into the US and could become naturalized. They spent their limited political capital fighting for you when they didnt need to.

jlkuester7 4y ago
> They are the only reason you were allowed into the US and could become naturalized. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is meant as hyperbole. Still I feel like this comment falls into the same rut that has lead to the current college admissions debate. Advocating for poor people does not have to be seen as an attempt to disenfranchise or minimize the opportunities of racial minorities.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  Not hyperbole. Without the black civil rights fight, Asians wouldnt be able to migrate to the US and become naturalized. Black Americans arent just poor or racial minorities, they were systematically robbed of the vast majority of their "early US investor" wealth by the state for centuries. They dont and shouldnt fall into the same category of other "racial minorities" and white women when it comes to these programs.

random314 4y ago

You came here with a strong educational background, either high school or Bachelor's in engineering and significant money in your sponsoring parents bank account. You are privileged, and I know it because I wanted to study in the United states for a master's degree but my parents couldn't afford it. The students who were able to afford an education in the United states were the rich kids in my class, and 100% of them were upper caste. Most American students graduate with a 100K+ debt burden. How much debt did you have on graduation? I forgive you for being blind to your upper caste privileges. Having said that, I believe SAT scores should be the key factor in admissions.