4 ms·

People would grind off the serial numbers and sell them on the secondary market, or for the metals. With motorcycles, for example, motors and frames have vin nu

People would grind off the serial numbers and sell them on the secondary market, or for the metals. With motorcycles, for example, motors and frames have vin numbers stamped to help prevent this, but you’ll sometimes see cheap parts for sale with the vin cleaned off.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jakogut 4y ago
In case anyone thinks this is cost prohibitive or the tooling is rare, a $100 battery powered grinder you can buy from Home Depot will do this in five seconds. If you have a little less money and a little more time, a $5 flat file will do the same thing in a few minutes.
- oblib 4y ago
  You know... we already have vehicle IDs on the body, the frame, and the engine on/in our cars. Those do lead to arrest every day here in the U.S.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Depends. The number stamping process does change the metal’s underlying metallurgy throughout the the metal where it was stamped. So unless you drill out the number through the entire metal (which is viable if you’re going to extract the minerals), there’s a possibility of reconstructing the serial number with some level of probability. Happens with guns. But that’s why you criminalize the trade of unmarked parts. Actually makes the prosecutor’s job easy that way rather than proving the part was actually stolen and not your retirement cat investment.
  - tpxl 4y ago
    > The number stamping process does change the metal’s underlying metallurgy throughout the the metal where it was stamped. So unless you drill out the number through the entire metal (which is viable if you’re going to extract the minerals), there’s a possibility of reconstructing the serial number with some level of probability. Do you happen to have more information on that?
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Here’s an example of it in practice: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/why-police-wanted-search-rodger-kotanko-1.6336188 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/why-police-wanted-se... Other info is a google away, just search for reconstructed serial numbers or similar queries. It’s not exactly a secret, but how successful it can be is.
- mieko 4y ago
  Yeah: No one thinks it's mechanically difficult to remove identifiers. The point is to make such altered parts illegal to buy. Similar to VIN restrictions or handgun signifiers in many states.
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    The thieves do not care about this and neither do the scrappers. They’ll both grind the serials off within a minute of taking possession if they’re still there.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      The point is that a cat with ground identifier is just as illegal to possess as one that is definitely stolen.
- q1w2 4y ago
  The issue then becomes "plausible deniability". You cannot claim you didn't know they were stolen if the serial number is ground off. So whomever grind the numbers off, may as well cut it open and extract the metals. It puts a major obstacle in the supply chain.
xcrunner529 4y ago
Why can’t it be a felony to buy said items?
- filoleg 4y ago
  Because that's not what happens with stolen catalytic converters, so it wouldn't change anything. Stolen cathalytic converters are valuable due to precious metals that can be extracted from them.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    We currently successfully regulate freon emissions. How do we do that? It surprises me that it's possible but it seems to work.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Probably has to do with not being able to earn a few hundred dollars in a few minutes with the education of how to use a simple cutting tool from Home Depot.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      On the ground, the situation with CFC refrigerants is probably a lot leakier (pun intended) than you think. There are a lot of AC systems repaired at stations that don't even own a recovery machine. (This is legal, so long as the system has already leaked out to nothing before starting the repair. I suspect that gets a wink and a nod a fair amount of the time.) Some refrigerants can only be legally sold to resellers or to users with an EPA certification. Sounds strict, huh? Well...the 609 certification test can be done online, is open book, and cost me $25 and 15 minutes to get.
      - renewiltord 4y ago
        Okay, well, so much for that idea! :D
- from 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jakogut 4y ago

In case anyone thinks this is cost prohibitive or the tooling is rare, a $100 battery powered grinder you can buy from Home Depot will do this in five seconds. If you have a little less money and a little more time, a $5 flat file will do the same thing in a few minutes.

oblib 4y ago
You know... we already have vehicle IDs on the body, the frame, and the engine on/in our cars. Those do lead to arrest every day here in the U.S.
Scoundreller 4y ago
Depends. The number stamping process does change the metal’s underlying metallurgy throughout the the metal where it was stamped. So unless you drill out the number through the entire metal (which is viable if you’re going to extract the minerals), there’s a possibility of reconstructing the serial number with some level of probability. Happens with guns. But that’s why you criminalize the trade of unmarked parts. Actually makes the prosecutor’s job easy that way rather than proving the part was actually stolen and not your retirement cat investment.
- tpxl 4y ago
  > The number stamping process does change the metal’s underlying metallurgy throughout the the metal where it was stamped. So unless you drill out the number through the entire metal (which is viable if you’re going to extract the minerals), there’s a possibility of reconstructing the serial number with some level of probability. Do you happen to have more information on that?
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Here’s an example of it in practice: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/why-police-wanted-search-rodger-kotanko-1.6336188 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/why-police-wanted-se... Other info is a google away, just search for reconstructed serial numbers or similar queries. It’s not exactly a secret, but how successful it can be is.
mieko 4y ago
Yeah: No one thinks it's mechanically difficult to remove identifiers. The point is to make such altered parts illegal to buy. Similar to VIN restrictions or handgun signifiers in many states.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  The thieves do not care about this and neither do the scrappers. They’ll both grind the serials off within a minute of taking possession if they’re still there.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    The point is that a cat with ground identifier is just as illegal to possess as one that is definitely stolen.
q1w2 4y ago
The issue then becomes "plausible deniability". You cannot claim you didn't know they were stolen if the serial number is ground off. So whomever grind the numbers off, may as well cut it open and extract the metals. It puts a major obstacle in the supply chain.

xcrunner529 4y ago

Why can’t it be a felony to buy said items?

filoleg 4y ago
Because that's not what happens with stolen catalytic converters, so it wouldn't change anything. Stolen cathalytic converters are valuable due to precious metals that can be extracted from them.
- renewiltord 4y ago
  We currently successfully regulate freon emissions. How do we do that? It surprises me that it's possible but it seems to work.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Probably has to do with not being able to earn a few hundred dollars in a few minutes with the education of how to use a simple cutting tool from Home Depot.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    On the ground, the situation with CFC refrigerants is probably a lot leakier (pun intended) than you think. There are a lot of AC systems repaired at stations that don't even own a recovery machine. (This is legal, so long as the system has already leaked out to nothing before starting the repair. I suspect that gets a wink and a nod a fair amount of the time.) Some refrigerants can only be legally sold to resellers or to users with an EPA certification. Sounds strict, huh? Well...the 609 certification test can be done online, is open book, and cost me $25 and 15 minutes to get.
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      Okay, well, so much for that idea! :D
from 4y ago