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I've always found Stephen Wolfram's thoughts to be overly self indulgent, and this is no exception. But it is illuminating since it reveals what I most loathe:

I've always found Stephen Wolfram's thoughts to be overly self indulgent, and this is no exception. But it is illuminating since it reveals what I most loathe: the productive life. Being productive is not a good. It leads to wanting to attach a computer to oneself while going on a walk outdoors!

xmprt 4y ago
Being productive is good but only as a means to an end. If you're using your productivity to get more done then that can be dangerous. But if you're using it to get your work done faster then it's actually quite useful.
bpodgursky 4y ago
Do you think the world is worse for Stephen Wolfram having been productive?
- idoh 4y ago
  I took it more along the lines of "this advice is not generally applicable" as opposed to dunking on Wolfram.
prottog 4y ago
> Being productive is not a good Perhaps you mean that being maximally productive -- that is, seeking productivity over all other goals in life -- is not a good? Because productivity is definitely a good. Without it, all crumbles away to the natural state, which is chaotic and for human purposes "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short".
- jeliotj 4y ago
  No, I meant what I said exactly. The product might be a good; that can be debated. But the action itself is not intrinsically good. What makes an action good? It always or necessarily produces good things. Very few actions are good in themselves. As to the Hobbes quote: too much for now! I'm at work. :)
renewiltord 4y ago
This is a common sentiment on the Internet. But when I look around at the people I know, none of the people who are anti-productivity are people I admire. In fact, the pro-productivity people do much more of everything with better outcomes. - The pro-productivity people are more involved parents and family members - The pro-productivity people are more involved in hobbies - The pro-productivity people create many more things - The pro-productivity people lift more, go outdoors more, travel more It appears, empirically from my sample set, that being pro-productivity correlates with spending one's life meaningfully. Having chosen to model myself on those I know like this, my life has gotten better. This class of advice (anti-productivity) therefore appears to me to be in the same class of advice as other Internet advice: "kick your kids out at 18 to teach them personal responsibility", "don't take on debt", etc. To make it worse, you only have to scroll approx 1 page down before you have a picture of Stephen Wolfram outdoors. The separation of work and play that so many online commenters form is perhaps key to this whole thing. Work is not a thing I do for money alone. I feel happy and fulfilled when I do it. It is fun!
- n4r9 4y ago
  Having read that blog post as well as others like [1], I'm not convinced Wolfram has the time to fulfill those bullet points in a fully engaged manner. He appears to be constantly working (or at least be available for calls and meetings) from waking up at 11am to going to bed at 3am, with a 2-hour dinner break. I dunno, he's clearly not your average Joe. I also enjoy my work but it's more stressful than going for a walk or playing the guitar. At work there are expectations and deadlines, and I have to plan and manage my time, and update the right people when there are delays or scope changes etc etc. Going for a walk you can just be whatever you are in the moment, you don't have to do or be anything that's asked of you for a few hours. [1] https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2012/03/the-personal-analytics-of-my-life/ https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2012/03/the-personal-ana...
- iamdbtoo 4y ago
  > It appears, empirically from my sample set, that being pro-productivity correlates with spending one's life meaningfully. I think many people have wildly different ideas about what makes a life meaningful and even more about what is a productive use of time.
agnos 4y ago
This. I felt an almost cringe-like reaction from reading the article. It reminds me of Goodhart's Law: when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. At some point being productive becomes the end goal and no longer a means to an end, and you've lost touch with the beauty of just going on a walk in nature.
hooverd 4y ago
Productivity people remind me of that one KRAZAM video [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o7qjN3KF8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o7qjN3KF8U
_boffin_ 4y ago
I find that you’re projecting your thoughts and lifestyle onto his lifestyle choice. Just stop as it does nobody any good. What’s wrong with attaching a computer to oneself while walking outdoors? Does he have the same intrinsic motivators as you? Probably not. Does it matter? Probably not. What about people that go outside and just read? Is that not a good life?
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  He's the one who posted it online. Fine if others post that they think it's bad, and why. Laudable, even, if you suppose he posted it to communicate some message and others find that message to be harmful or misleading or otherwise bad. They ought to post what they think is wrong with it.
  - _boffin_ 4y ago
    Much more eloquent than what I said
latenightcoding 4y ago
Most people don't have his potential. Yeah, I'm aware he pushes a lot of crackpot science, but he is still exceedingly brilliant. For the average folk, this is a horrible way to live.

xmprt 4y ago

Being productive is good but only as a means to an end. If you're using your productivity to get more done then that can be dangerous. But if you're using it to get your work done faster then it's actually quite useful.

bpodgursky 4y ago

Do you think the world is worse for Stephen Wolfram having been productive?

idoh 4y ago
I took it more along the lines of "this advice is not generally applicable" as opposed to dunking on Wolfram.

prottog 4y ago

> Being productive is not a good Perhaps you mean that being maximally productive -- that is, seeking productivity over all other goals in life -- is not a good? Because productivity is definitely a good. Without it, all crumbles away to the natural state, which is chaotic and for human purposes "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short".

jeliotj 4y ago
No, I meant what I said exactly. The product might be a good; that can be debated. But the action itself is not intrinsically good. What makes an action good? It always or necessarily produces good things. Very few actions are good in themselves. As to the Hobbes quote: too much for now! I'm at work. :)

renewiltord 4y ago

This is a common sentiment on the Internet. But when I look around at the people I know, none of the people who are anti-productivity are people I admire. In fact, the pro-productivity people do much more of everything with better outcomes. - The pro-productivity people are more involved parents and family members - The pro-productivity people are more involved in hobbies - The pro-productivity people create many more things - The pro-productivity people lift more, go outdoors more, travel more It appears, empirically from my sample set, that being pro-productivity correlates with spending one's life meaningfully. Having chosen to model myself on those I know like this, my life has gotten better. This class of advice (anti-productivity) therefore appears to me to be in the same class of advice as other Internet advice: "kick your kids out at 18 to teach them personal responsibility", "don't take on debt", etc. To make it worse, you only have to scroll approx 1 page down before you have a picture of Stephen Wolfram outdoors. The separation of work and play that so many online commenters form is perhaps key to this whole thing. Work is not a thing I do for money alone. I feel happy and fulfilled when I do it. It is fun!

n4r9 4y ago
Having read that blog post as well as others like [1], I'm not convinced Wolfram has the time to fulfill those bullet points in a fully engaged manner. He appears to be constantly working (or at least be available for calls and meetings) from waking up at 11am to going to bed at 3am, with a 2-hour dinner break. I dunno, he's clearly not your average Joe. I also enjoy my work but it's more stressful than going for a walk or playing the guitar. At work there are expectations and deadlines, and I have to plan and manage my time, and update the right people when there are delays or scope changes etc etc. Going for a walk you can just be whatever you are in the moment, you don't have to do or be anything that's asked of you for a few hours. [1] https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2012/03/the-personal-analytics-of-my-life/ https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2012/03/the-personal-ana...
iamdbtoo 4y ago
> It appears, empirically from my sample set, that being pro-productivity correlates with spending one's life meaningfully. I think many people have wildly different ideas about what makes a life meaningful and even more about what is a productive use of time.

agnos 4y ago

This. I felt an almost cringe-like reaction from reading the article. It reminds me of Goodhart's Law: when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. At some point being productive becomes the end goal and no longer a means to an end, and you've lost touch with the beauty of just going on a walk in nature.

hooverd 4y ago

Productivity people remind me of that one KRAZAM video [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o7qjN3KF8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o7qjN3KF8U

_boffin_ 4y ago

I find that you’re projecting your thoughts and lifestyle onto his lifestyle choice. Just stop as it does nobody any good. What’s wrong with attaching a computer to oneself while walking outdoors? Does he have the same intrinsic motivators as you? Probably not. Does it matter? Probably not. What about people that go outside and just read? Is that not a good life?

yamtaddle 4y ago
He's the one who posted it online. Fine if others post that they think it's bad, and why. Laudable, even, if you suppose he posted it to communicate some message and others find that message to be harmful or misleading or otherwise bad. They ought to post what they think is wrong with it.
- _boffin_ 4y ago
  Much more eloquent than what I said

latenightcoding 4y ago

Most people don't have his potential. Yeah, I'm aware he pushes a lot of crackpot science, but he is still exceedingly brilliant. For the average folk, this is a horrible way to live.