4 ms·

I don’t see an issue. The government already knows how much I earn, where I live, etc.

by f6v 4y ago

ls15 4y ago
> The government already knows how much I earn, where I live, etc. There is no reason to allow them to know more, but there are very good reasons to let them only know what they really need to know.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Oh, you bought booze and chocolates yesterday? You're getting fat and drunk, your health insurance just went up. Oh, you made an inapropriate comment on twitter... no more concerts and movie tickets for you. As said by someone else below, china has a similar system in place, where chinese people with low social scores cannot buy public transportation tickets. And I also don't think the government needs to know you went to a buttplug store and bought an XXXL buttplug there. (especially if you're a guy, unmarried, and the government is anti lgbt oriented).
- f6v 4y ago
  > Oh, you bought booze and chocolates yesterday? You're getting fat and drunk, your health insurance just went up I mean, you’re exaggerating. But yes, I’d like obese people to pay more for insurance. Also, if government thinks booze is bad it shouldn’t sell it. > As said by someone else below, china has a similar system in place Anecdotally, I asked about this a Chinese friend I studied with in Europe. She said “Social credit? What’s that?” It’s not that she can’t read, she’s on Instagram and WhatsApp.
- nottorp 4y ago
  > Oh, you bought booze and chocolates yesterday? You're getting fat and drunk, your health insurance just went up. In the area where this instant payment system will go up, health insurance is universal and government regulated as well :)
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > In the area where this instant payment system will go up, health insurance is universal and government regulated as well :) Except the Eu is slowly privatizing its healthcare with the pressure from the US.
  - catiopatio 4y ago
    In this context, “universal and government regulated” also means “inescapable and absolute”. Your health insurance might not go up, but you could find procedures being denied if, based on your purchases and behavior, the cost would be a poor investment for society and the state.
    - yohannparis 4y ago
      In most EU countries offering a Universal healthcare insurance, you have still a private market of insurances for services/products not covered by the government insurance (i.e. glasses, dental, cosmetics, etc.) If you get denied of a procedures because of previous purchases and behaviour that the government insurance does not want to cover; the private sector will be happy to serve you.
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        So pay the insurance... and then pay full procedure price?
- Y_Y 4y ago
  It's not like I've been keeping the fact that I'm fat and drunk a secret from anyone.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
wtmt 4y ago
Many people wouldn’t see an issue until they’re either personally affected or are the kind to look at privacy and freedoms deeply. The question for you is whether the government has a need or the right to know every penny (or whatever fractional currency you can legally use) that you move around. This shouldn’t be confused with the government having a need to know about incomes and/or wealth for taxation purposes. Sales or consumption taxes collected by sellers don’t typically care who exactly pays it or what the mode of payment is. Trusting a nebulous entity like a government to track every expense and every money transfer would be draconian, and would be understandable only in dictatorships and authoritarian regimes (and the ones very close to becoming one).
- psychoslave 4y ago
  > The question for you is whether the government has a need or the right to know every penny (or whatever fractional currency you can legally use) that you move around. First, there is nothing like the government in Europe. Secondly, the organisms that are tracking as extensively as possible European citizen are mostly private firms (whose parent companies are typically not European). European directives like GPDR are on the contrary rather shielding European citizen privacy if anything. I doubt this proposition is forcing to withdraw cash within euro zone. Citizen are free to continue to use cash or not at there discretion.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    > First, there is nothing like the government in Europe. technically no... but in practice, yes. EU decides something, and local governments must implement the EU-wide changes into local laws. If EU decides to do something, they do it... the states are not as sovereign as it might seem. I mean... look at EU banning RT (dot com) - https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/03/02/eu-imposes-sanctions-on-state-owned-outlets-rt-russia-today-and-sputnik-s-broadcasting-in-the-eu/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022... EU decided to identify payers of bills (or bank transfers) above 1000eur, and every country had to pass the law ( https://www.eumonitor.eu/9353000/1/j4nvk6yhcbpeywk_j9vvik7m1c3gyxp/vjuo7ak2n0zf https://www.eumonitor.eu/9353000/1/j4nvk6yhcbpeywk_j9vvik7m1... ) So yeah... EU is "the government", there's just one step in between.

I don’t see an issue. The government already knows how much I earn, where I live, etc.

by f6v 4y ago

I don’t see an issue. The government already knows how much I earn, where I live, etc.

ls15 4y ago

> The government already knows how much I earn, where I live, etc. There is no reason to allow them to know more, but there are very good reasons to let them only know what they really need to know.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

Oh, you bought booze and chocolates yesterday? You're getting fat and drunk, your health insurance just went up. Oh, you made an inapropriate comment on twitter... no more concerts and movie tickets for you. As said by someone else below, china has a similar system in place, where chinese people with low social scores cannot buy public transportation tickets. And I also don't think the government needs to know you went to a buttplug store and bought an XXXL buttplug there. (especially if you're a guy, unmarried, and the government is anti lgbt oriented).

f6v 4y ago
> Oh, you bought booze and chocolates yesterday? You're getting fat and drunk, your health insurance just went up I mean, you’re exaggerating. But yes, I’d like obese people to pay more for insurance. Also, if government thinks booze is bad it shouldn’t sell it. > As said by someone else below, china has a similar system in place Anecdotally, I asked about this a Chinese friend I studied with in Europe. She said “Social credit? What’s that?” It’s not that she can’t read, she’s on Instagram and WhatsApp.
nottorp 4y ago
> Oh, you bought booze and chocolates yesterday? You're getting fat and drunk, your health insurance just went up. In the area where this instant payment system will go up, health insurance is universal and government regulated as well :)
- unity1001 4y ago
  > In the area where this instant payment system will go up, health insurance is universal and government regulated as well :) Except the Eu is slowly privatizing its healthcare with the pressure from the US.
- catiopatio 4y ago
  In this context, “universal and government regulated” also means “inescapable and absolute”. Your health insurance might not go up, but you could find procedures being denied if, based on your purchases and behavior, the cost would be a poor investment for society and the state.
  - yohannparis 4y ago
    In most EU countries offering a Universal healthcare insurance, you have still a private market of insurances for services/products not covered by the government insurance (i.e. glasses, dental, cosmetics, etc.) If you get denied of a procedures because of previous purchases and behaviour that the government insurance does not want to cover; the private sector will be happy to serve you.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      So pay the insurance... and then pay full procedure price?
Y_Y 4y ago
It's not like I've been keeping the fact that I'm fat and drunk a secret from anyone.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

wtmt 4y ago

Many people wouldn’t see an issue until they’re either personally affected or are the kind to look at privacy and freedoms deeply. The question for you is whether the government has a need or the right to know every penny (or whatever fractional currency you can legally use) that you move around. This shouldn’t be confused with the government having a need to know about incomes and/or wealth for taxation purposes. Sales or consumption taxes collected by sellers don’t typically care who exactly pays it or what the mode of payment is. Trusting a nebulous entity like a government to track every expense and every money transfer would be draconian, and would be understandable only in dictatorships and authoritarian regimes (and the ones very close to becoming one).

psychoslave 4y ago
> The question for you is whether the government has a need or the right to know every penny (or whatever fractional currency you can legally use) that you move around. First, there is nothing like the government in Europe. Secondly, the organisms that are tracking as extensively as possible European citizen are mostly private firms (whose parent companies are typically not European). European directives like GPDR are on the contrary rather shielding European citizen privacy if anything. I doubt this proposition is forcing to withdraw cash within euro zone. Citizen are free to continue to use cash or not at there discretion.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > First, there is nothing like the government in Europe. technically no... but in practice, yes. EU decides something, and local governments must implement the EU-wide changes into local laws. If EU decides to do something, they do it... the states are not as sovereign as it might seem. I mean... look at EU banning RT (dot com) - https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/03/02/eu-imposes-sanctions-on-state-owned-outlets-rt-russia-today-and-sputnik-s-broadcasting-in-the-eu/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022... EU decided to identify payers of bills (or bank transfers) above 1000eur, and every country had to pass the law ( https://www.eumonitor.eu/9353000/1/j4nvk6yhcbpeywk_j9vvik7m1c3gyxp/vjuo7ak2n0zf https://www.eumonitor.eu/9353000/1/j4nvk6yhcbpeywk_j9vvik7m1... ) So yeah... EU is "the government", there's just one step in between.