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Jony Ive on Life After Apple
- helsinkiandrew 4y agohttps://archive.ph/gLOZa https://archive.ph/gLOZa
- nier 4y agoA decent comment like this one shouldn’t be so far down. I feel like people are rushing right past the article and commenting on their biggest pet peeve when it comes to Apple’s design decisions.
- uptown 4y ago"He is of the generation that believed that design should last and that it shouldn’t be replaced every year,” says Sudjic I'm still using a 27" 2012 iMac that, to me, looks as good as anything new they've produced. Ten years for a desktop machine sounds like a "win" for for both design and longevity.
- ben_w 4y agoTo me, the transparent bondi blue original iMac looked better than the pastel shades on the new iMac. It's not all rose-tinted past however: the original had a mouse that was hard to use all the time, not merely while recharging as the new one.
- miohtama 4y agoWas Ive responsible for the drive for “thinner an thinner” as it is sometimes claimed? Less ports, worse keyboard, no MagSafe, etc. everything power users did not fancy.
- pcurve 4y agoI’m sure some of that was done in collaboration with bean counters
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoAnd yet, those decisions were reverted after he left Apple, so are the bean counters really at fault here?
- randomsearch 4y agoYes and it was great. I hope you enjoy your extra ports so I can lug around my heavier more cumbersome devices with me, all day every day. I think they've made a huge mistake in catering to the nerds rather than pushing the envelope for the average consumer. Never heard a civilian complain about the ports on their mac.
- miohtama 4y agoUnfortunately I have yet to meet a person who enjoyed the butterfly keyboard. Maybe I am too much surrounded by military people.
- filoleg 4y agoThe person you are replying to said nothing about the butterfly keyboard, only ports. So I don't think they disagree with you on the keyboard part.
- cyber_kinetist 4y agoHis later involvement in the Apple lineup really didn’t paint him in a positive light, if we remember the atrocities with the “trashcan” Mac Pro, the notorious butterfly keyboard, the questionable Touch Bar, etc. They were all highly unpopular changes that were all rolled back once he left the company.
- pcurve 4y agoApple hasn’t made a decent mouse for more than twenty years starting with the hockey puck.
- dkyc 4y agoI think this is very much a matter of personal preference. To me, the "Magic Mouse" is the best pointing device I have ever used on a computer, and was actually my original reason for switching to Macs. I do understand that many people see it different, of course.
- mytec 4y agoI worked with an engineer who didn't like Macs. I don't prefer the "Magic Mouse" however I bought it when it first came out and showed it to him. Not long after that I saw him using the mouse and he used it for years. He absolutely loved it.
- o_m 4y agoOn the other hand they have the best trackpads, period. I don't even use a mouse when working with an external monitor anymore, I use the external trackpad from Apple instead, and so does most of my coworkers.
- brightball 4y agoI was a big fan of the magic mouse. Doesn't work well outside of apple devices so when I switched to linux I had to find something else.
- nordsieck 4y ago
- jonhohle 4y agoI just picked up an acrylic, 23” Cinema HD display (https://everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/apple_cinema_hd_display.html https://everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/appl...), and it is stunning. It even has a higher resolution screen than most 23” monitors available today (1920x1200). I’m not sure I personally like it as much as the aluminum displays that followed it, but it is such a head turner that’s almost like an art piece in addition to its function.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y agoThe removal of Target Display Mode from the iMac was a huge mistake, and has probably created a huge quantity of e-waste. But I bet it sold a lot of iMacs that otherwise would have been Mac Minis, so Apple don't care.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago“Language is so powerful,” says Ive, who often begins a new project with conversation or writing, not sketches. “If [I say] I’m going to design a chair, think how dangerous that is. Because you’ve just said ‘chair,’ you’ve said no to a thousand ideas.” The older I get the more I believe this to be the most difficult aspect of making decisions. Saying 'no' to thousands of potentialities seems scary because it's a memento mori of the finiteness of individual lives.
- tempodox 4y agomemento mori
- MichaelZuo 4y agoThanks, updated it. As a sidenote, Safari 16 spellcheck on macOS 12 really does not like latin phrases.
- seabea 4y agoMany of Ive's initial designs of products were fantastic and great examples of Dieter Ram's principles of design. Unfortunately I think he drank a bit too much of his own kool-aid and "innovated" on the original designs in ways that were user hostile and didn't serve to complement the function of the products.
- jmisavage 4y agoHis best work was done when Jobs was there to challenge him or reign him in.
- jacooper 4y ago> “I love making things that are profoundly useful,” he adds. “I’m a very practical craftsperson.” Looks down on the apples magic mouse which needs to be flipped to charge, practical indeed
- DanCarvajal 4y agoI find the Magic Mouse such a conflicting product. The touch sensor on it is amazing and really innovated in the mouse space, but ergonomically it's a mess.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y agoThe OG Magic Mouse that took AA batteries was a far superior product. Mine still works. They got it right, and then took a step backwards both in convenience and in repairability.
- joshmanders 4y agoReally? I didn't notice much difference going from the battery one to the chargeable one outside of the obvious need to plug it in when not using it because it's unusable plugged in.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y agoThe main difference is that every supermarket and convenience store sells replacement batteries for the original, but when the battery in the Magic Mouse 2 is something you need an iFixit guide and a specialist retailer (and the knowledge of how to avoid chinesium fakes) to replace when it inevitably goes all puffy and fire-hazard-y.
- aniforprez 4y agoLooks down at the Macbook with butterfly keys that are broken and nods along
- iammjm 4y ago
- amelius 4y ago> “I love making things that are profoundly useful,” he adds. “I’m a very practical craftsperson.” Meanwhile, thousands of hardware and software engineers who actually make the thing work are not in the news.
- whywhywhywhy 4y agoWhy your own PR within your work is important. Why also advice about modesty being a virtue is a scam. If you won’t shout about how great your own work is, how can you expect anyone else to?
- amelius 4y agoCan you even speak about your work if you're inside Apple?
- ruph123 4y agoThere is one design directions that I am really salty about which Ive (reluctantly) innovated: protruding phone cameras lenses. I read somewhere that he was not happy about that but had to go with it. But since the iPhone 6, the bumps have grown bigger and bigger and are almost like status symbols now. The worst are protruding lenses on iPads which cannot lay flat on the table. That and magic mouse charging port if course but luckily this did not catch on with other vendors.
- edent 4y agoThey stick out because they know that many users will add a case. Otherwise the case would shade the lenses.
- ghaff 4y agoGiven the camera is one of the more important functions of a smartphone for me, I'll pretty much take anything within reason that improves camera performance. (I'm less convinced of bumps for iPads although presumably some percentage of users value the rear camera on an iPad as well. Certainly the latest Pro ones are played up by Apple for video.)
- randomsearch 4y agoTotally agree about the camera lenses. That's actually the first time I've read someone saying it here. OTOH, I went into an Apple store recently and the industrial design has absolutely tanked since Ive left. I know nerds are happy about the extra ports etc., but the phones and macbooks are thicker and heavier and that is a step backwards for me. As for the iMac designs... yuck. I presume these are all designed without Ive, so stark is the contrast. The worst display I've seen in an Apple store, ever.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ElfinTrousers 4y agoJony Ive, the Corbusier of industrial design. The comparison is not meant to be a compliment.
- nier 4y agoFrom Wikipedia: “Le Corbusier remains a controversial figure. Some of his urban planning ideas have been criticized for their indifference to pre-existing cultural sites, societal expression and equality, and his alleged ties with fascism, antisemitism, and eugenics, and the dictator Benito Mussolini have resulted in some continuing contention.” With such a public record on Corbusier, my first thought is that you need to qualify your analogy. You write that you did not mean it as a compliment. What exactly makes Ive the Corbusier of industrial design?
- ElfinTrousers 4y agoTo be clear, I don't know anything about Ive's political or philosophical beliefs, so that is not what I'm talking about. I'm making an analogy based on the fact that both were very influential in their respective fields, on the similarities they had in their styles, and their willingness to put style over function. Also let me say this explicitly, this is not an invitation to debate the merits of Ive, Ive's work, or any associated topics like Apple hardware more generally. I mean, you can have the debate, I can't stop you, but I also won't be participating.
- nier 4y agoThat I would say is fair. Thanks for the clarification.
- Nathanael_M 4y agoThe negativity in these comments is shocking and smug. However you feel about Apple and specific design decisions, Jony Ive is inarguably an exceptionally talented, successful, and influential designer that pushed entire industries out of chintzy, eye-sore, fast-fashion territory. High quality materials and (largely) enjoyable user experiences. Every human values that. The reason companies prioritize that is because of Jony Ive and Steve Jobs, like it or not.
- jamil7 4y agoFair enough but I think there’s still a lot of bad blood among professionals as he pushed Apple products (particularly the laptops) away from premium workhorses towards something like luxury consumer products. A lot of the decisions he made have (thankfully) since been undone in the latest generations.
- rideontime 4y agoTthe buttterfly keyboard fiasco undid all tthat goodwill for a lott of people.
- voisin 4y agoBecause only when a track record is 100% perfect does it count, right? Anyone who is less than perfect must be garbage.
- rideontime 4y agoIt was the final result of a trend toward form over function that worsened noticeably in the absence of Jobs and only reversed when Ive was ejected.
- cptskippy 4y agoI don't disagree that they transitioned the industry to higher quality materials but they fully embraced the fashion lifecycle. There's a new iThing released every year immediately making your fully functional prior year iThing obsolete. They might be using higher quality materials and adhere to aesthetic functionalism or whatever but their products fully embrace the fast-fashion expiration date.
- poisonborz 4y agoFor anyone who didn't read the article yet, it tells basically nothing of Ive's "Life After Apple" - except that he's working at his LoveForm agency, something he announced right at the resignation.
- nier 4y agoWhat’s new to me is the fact that they hired a full-time writer early on. At my current gig I write acceptance criteria for a living so the following excerpt really spoke to me: «One surprising thing about Ive’s approach is that conversation, rather than sketches, is how he often begins a project. Thinking—and then speaking about that thinking—is the raw material he works with. “Language is so powerful,” Ive says. “If [I say] I’m going to design a chair, think how dangerous that is. Because you’ve just said chair, you’ve just said no to a thousand ideas.» The experience that I’m having is that there’s a fine line between a description being either too broad or overly narrow. The latter excludes lots of solutions that might be better than the obvious one at the time of writing. The former has everybody scratching their heads. :D