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Ask HN: Carrier “lost” my number in a port request

271 points by bojangleslover 4y ago

I tried switching from T-Mobile to US Mobile after parking it on a VoIP service for a year (was abroad). They botched the port request completely. Ended up gaslighted by both companies, both claimed they "don't have the number". Need my number for 2FA—literally can't move forward with a background check for my new job, can't send money to my family with my bank, etc. I'm sure I could theoretically get a new number but it seems the admin cost of this would possibly be in the hundreds of hours. Do I have any recourse?

hirundo 4y ago
I just had a similar experience. I cancelled my landline phone service, and was told that I cannot port the number anywhere, or even forward it to another number. The only way I can retain access to it is to retain my phone service with Western New Mexico Telephone. I thought there were phone number portability laws. Do they exist? Are they full of loopholes? Are they being flouted?
- astura 4y ago
  > I thought there were phone number portability laws. For wireless carriers, yes. I'm not familiar with any for landlines. Edit: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph... Looks like small providers don't have to do any porting, plus as a sibling comment pointed out, you can't port a number after you cancel service.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    At least historically, the area code and exchange was determined by your physical location. So if you moved to a different exchange you couldn’t keep your number. In fact I had a case where I switched from Verizon without moving. But Comcast’s switching gear was in a different exchange so they had to change my number. This was a while back. There may be more flexibility today.
    - astura 4y ago
      Yeah, I figured this out as a kid. I could tell which neighborhood people lived or a business was located solely based on phone number.
- Spare_account 4y ago
  https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph... The rules appear to apply to "wireline" as well as "wireless" providers. I don't know if the FCC uses the term "wireline" to refer to something unexpected, but my best guess is that your experience breached the FCC rules. There is a complaint link on that FCC page.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - wtallis 4y ago
    The actual rules are at https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-52/subpart-C https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B... In particular, https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-52/subpart-C/section-52.34 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B... has what seems to me like pretty strong language: > 47 CFR 52.34(c) Telecommunications carriers must facilitate an end-user customer's valid number portability request either to or from an interconnected VoIP or VRS or IP Relay provider. “Facilitate” is defined as the telecommunication carrier's affirmative legal obligation to take all steps necessary to initiate or allow a port-in or port-out itself, subject to a valid port request, without unreasonable delay or unreasonable procedures that have the effect of delaying or denying porting of the NANP-based telephone number.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dec0dedab0de 4y ago
  You can't port it if the number is cancelled. You have to sign up for the new provider and have them take the number. Every provider can just take any number they want. I used to work at a small Telco/CLEC and occasionally I would have to fill in on the phone switch to do things like this. It was very nerve wracking. Kind of like editing BGP, knowing that a typo could effect a ton of people. So just don't tell your current provider, the new one should be able to handle it.
- toast0 4y ago
  Wireline porting requirements are limited; the original carrier only has to port to carriers in tge same wire center (also known as central office). If there's no other carriers, you can't port. If your wireline carrier hasn't been (re)absorbed into ATT, Verizon, or Frontier, it might be small enough that there's no competitive carriers in their central offices.
- smolder 4y ago
  I think maybe you need to initiate the port to a new carrier and then cancel existing service? Otherwise they may just release the number to the available pool as soon as you cancel, and then the answer really would be that they can't port it anywhere, since they don't control it.
realgeniushere 4y ago
Complain to the FCC for one. This process is highly regulated.
- dcormier 4y ago
  Here’s the link: https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=39744 https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?tic...
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  No it’s not. The only thing regulated is that phone companies have to make the numbers portable so they can’t hold them hostage. But you don’t own any right to your number, if there is a renumbering you are SOL. The number can’t be gone of course, it belongs to a range operated by a provider (where it originally came from) who can see who it is being forwarded to. But no one is under any obligation to help you with that setup. All they have to do is make a credible offer to port the number if you move to another provider.
  - realgeniushere 4y ago
    Not sure what you’re on about, but every provider is going to offer new customers a porting service to encourage you to switch. And with a few exceptions (moving from wired to wired in a new geographic area, or moving certain small rural providers), your old carrier must let the new carrier port the number.
    - tinus_hn 4y ago
      That is the same thing. Practically the original provider has to offer a service where they forward your number to a new carrier. But that doesn’t mean the customer has some kind of ownership like claim to the number.
      - realgeniushere 4y ago
        Not practically, legally. Not sure what the significance of metaphysical ownership or the lack thereof is. The FCC enforces these rules.
ckdarby 4y ago
I doubt it being hundreds of hours. Most will require two government IDs to be sent in to remove 2FA and 1-2 week process to review & confirm. Moving forward you should look at Yubikey where you can with the backup being your phone via Authenticator app.
- jobigoud 4y ago
  You can already do backups with Authy but I think OP's issue is for SMS-based 2FA which is still very common.
  - realgeniushere 4y ago
    Don’t you need your phone number to authenticate with Authy to get into the backups?
    - OJFord 4y ago
      No. That might be a possible backup, but the usual way is any current logged-in device + password.
      - realgeniushere 4y ago
        Uhh, if you need a currently logged in device to bypass the phone number login, then I wouldn’t say it’s a “possible backup”. Phone number is the primary authentication mechanism for Authy.
        n0mn 4y ago
        If you have “Allow Multi-Device” enabled, your keys are stored on Authy’s servers. You simply download Authy on a new device, sign into your account and you are done.
        realgeniushere 4y ago
        How do you sign into your Authy account? For me, it asks to send an SMS to my phone.
cnity 4y ago
Can't help you sorry, but this also is such a massive downside to 2FA. It's totally possible to get locked out of your services semi-permanently due to really simple or likely mishaps. I've encountered a similar but less problematic version of this simply by being abroad somewhere my provider didn't cover.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ashurov 4y ago
  I have this issue with Google and no way to get any support or help to get this resolved. I just have to accept i’ve lost access forever…
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    Free account? When you are paying customer you are also getting the privilege of contacting the support. I think it is fair that Google does not want to directly talk to billions of people using their services and not paying a cent for it. You get it for free? It is up to you to make sure you don't loose access.
    - ashurov 4y ago
      Yes, free account. And having lost the ability to do 2FA I probably won’t be able to upgrade it. I’m fine paying for support, but that is not even provided as far as I know (for free accounts).
      - twawaaay 4y ago
        It is a bit as with insurance. You pay insurance in case something happens. The insurance model is based on the assumption that a lot of people will be paying for it without getting the insurance back, otherwise it does not make financial sense. The cheapest paid workspace account is cheap enough that it probably costs less than processing a single support ticket. Remember, when you loose access you are probably looking at multiple touch points and multiple people on their side to get you back. You wouldn't want any single person to be able to just change whatever they want? So if they allowed it, people would just pay for the privilege once to get the problem resolved and then downgrade themselves back after one month. The issue here is that the ratio of free accounts to paid accounts is so high that if any support was allowed for unpaid accounts it would absolutely deluge the system and paid accounts would have to pay a lot more to cover the cost of support for unpaid accounts. But I do think they could provide a paid support ticket where you can pay an amount that would cover their costs (and of course then some) for a single support request. The issue with this is that somebody could do this to "recover" account that does not belong to them. Paradoxically, there is some extra security in not allowing any social hacking by just not allowing any manual work on the account.
wccrawford 4y ago
If it were me, I'd already have started moving on. Any legal recourse is going to take a rather long time. And you've already tried to get each service to grab the number. So if anything is time sensitive, I'd choose to do what I could. Possibly with a different company than either of those 2.
Spare_account 4y ago
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph... There's a complaint link on that page
koolba 4y ago
Why would T-mobile have your number if you ported it out to the VOIP service a year ago? Did you ever confirm it arrived at the VOIP service? The last place you can confirm you had access to the number is where you should be looking.
- aussieshibe 4y ago
  I think the OP meant the VoIP service was provided by T-Mobile.
  - sydbarrett74 4y ago
    T-Mobile and US Mobile are the two companies at fault. The VoIP service is a third party (NB the use of the indefinite article).
zahma 4y ago
Recently I switched to Verizon from a pre-paid service subsidiary of T-Mobile and had some porting issues myself. I totally commiserate with you, but there is hope. I left the store at end-of-business before the porting was totally complete and the in-store rep couldn't contact the porting team because they'd already gone home. I had data and could receive incoming messages but couldn't make outgoing calls or texts. The in-store rep assured me I could handle this myself the following day. He didn't mention the hours of bullshit I'd endure. I persevered for the same reasons as our Bojangles Aficionado above, but, honestly, I don't know that I saved myself the time that would otherwise have been spent re-authorizing myself on my 2FA accounts. The gist of the story is that the junky prepaid service didn't give me the right account info from the start, so when it came time to port, Verizon couldn't help me unless I produced account numbers, PINs, and zip-codes. The zip-code was from an address I haven't lived at for 10+ years. (That remains a mystery and is somewhat concerning.) At some point, I was trying to socially engineer the zip-code out of the T-mobile subsidiary rep, which eventually just turned into a plea. I don't have a magic solution for you, but here are some thoughts about how I'd approach your situation: * I would recommend continuing to call and escalating as high as you can go. My principle with customer service of major corporations is that if I don't like the response I get, I call back a maximum number of three times. If I get the same response 3x in a row, then that's a hard policy that I'm not going to bypass. Chances are though, whether by human error or a policy designed to be flexible, I will get some leeway. * Related to the above, in calling back a few times, you might find that the technician you talk to in subsequent attempts is more qualified, experienced, or simply desires to handle your problem efficiently. Essentially, play the game more to win. * I would also recommend getting T-Mobile and US Mobile on the phone with one another. They have the capacity to do this, and they might discover the problem together as opposed to being able to punt to the other side. Make yourself a nuisance. At the end of the day, you're in the right here. * Last bit of advice I can impart is make sure you are absolutely speaking to the right team. Most customer service lines are structured in such a way that the first line (FLS) filters out people who don't need specialized help. The problem I faced with Verizon was being asked repeatedly by FLS who staffed the Porting hotline number to do the same troubleshooting steps (e.g. reset network settings on my phone) before speaking to the actual team who handled porting. Verizon might not be structured like T-Mobile or US Mobile, but at some point I was getting detailed information about the status of the Port from a Tech Support rep who ultimately had to hand me off to the Porting team to finalize it. Good luck!
beprogrammed 4y ago
Yeah they will do that when they're being idiots, which is quite often. There should be a hold on it being reassigned, if the porting request is recent, keep on hounding them until they get it worked out, if it's been awhile, you're probably hosed.
themitigating 4y ago
If you parked it at a VOIP how were you able to use the 2fa?
- bojangleslover 4y ago
  My VoIP had an SMS feature that I used from their web UI
nicknow 4y ago
Can you provide some additional details on the VoIP service? When you say "parking it on a VoIP service" do you mean that you ported from T-Mobile to the VoIP service or do you mean you forwarded your calls to a VoIP line and continued to pay for T-Mobile? Who botched the port request? You would have initiated the port request via US Mobile when you signed up for service. They wouldn't depend on T-Mobile "having the number", they would have looked up who had the number and initiated the porting process. You can see which carrier "owns" your number by going to https://freecarrierlookup.com/ https://freecarrierlookup.com/. Now, if you cancelled your service BEFORE you ported the number, then you may be SOL as the number would have been released. Even if not reassigned you may not be able to get the provider/carrier to release it since it is no longer in your name.
- bojangleslover 4y ago
  I ported from VoIP to T-Mobile successfully, then tried to port from T-Mobile to US Mobile because US Mobile is $15/month. I did not cancel before I had the number.
- beezle 4y ago
  Not 100% sure but think that link only provides the original carrier, not necessarily the current.
alanbernstein 4y ago
Something similar happened to me: my phone number of 15 years was active on the Sprint cell network via an MVNO. Evidently, when the network was decommissioned, the phone number "disappeared" with it. According to the carrier, it was my responsibility to switch to a new SIM card. The company never notified me of that responsibility, or the deadline. In July, the number stopped working, and I spent maybe 20 fruitless hours on phone support with my carrier, with T-Mobile (since they are the operator of the Sprint network), and with Sprint (which I guess sort of still exists despite being acquired by T-Mobile). The MVNO subreddit had several agents handling this exact problem, claiming they could fix it, but they could not. I ended up getting one piece of potentially useful advice: after a while, the phone number will possibly get recycled into a generally available pool. IF that happens, and IF I check at the right time, I MAY be able to purchase the number at https://www.numberbarn.com/ https://www.numberbarn.com/. After all that, I just ended up getting a new number. It has now been four months. I check that site a few times a week, no luck yet. I also call the number occasionally, I have a script prepared to try to convince whoever answers to listen to my stupid plea. It's still disconnected. As for moving forward: just get a new number. You may get the old one back eventually, but don't count on it happening at all, especially not quickly. I had no trouble updating my number for bank accounts. I don't understand why you would be stuck with your old number for a background check service, seems like you should just be able to provide them with a new number.
- exikyut 4y ago
  Once unlec.com is back up (see other comment) - I'm very curious where the number currently is at?
  - alanbernstein 4y ago
    Here are the most obviously meaningful fields in the result: port date 2022-10-20 15:46:07 spid name Sprint PCS-10X/2 ocn name OMNIPOINT COMMUNICATIONS MIDWEST OPERATIONS LLC nn description T-Mobile lnp history is blank or not working.
    - 4y ago
amsterdorn 4y ago
Not to pile on but this is just one of the many reasons why SMS is bad for 2FA. https://sec.okta.com/articles/2020/05/sms-two-factor-authentication-worse-just-good-password https://sec.okta.com/articles/2020/05/sms-two-factor-authent...
latentpot 4y ago
Solution - need some big pull to get this done. The number needs to be recreated at the original provider (assuming no one else has picked it up), activated, ported multiple times (if you have ported earlier) and then brought to the current final provider. Source - lost a 20+ year old number during a port activity the same way. Fortunately the provider was a client, and got a circle head involved to recover the number in the way it is mentioned above. Took a week.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  "circle head"?
  - davchana 4y ago
    Some higher up executive. Geographical Circle Operations Head maybe.
Zigurd 4y ago
This is one reason why I have a Google Voice number. If my underlying. number is "lost" I can just reconfigure GV. But there is some (increasingly rare) 2FA that does not work with numbers other than telco numbers. When you sign up an SMS vendor for 2FA, make sure it works with VoIP services.
- rdbell 4y ago
  This is even worse. You’re boned when Google bans your account and refuses to tell you why.
  - 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
    You can still port your number away from Google even if they ban you.
    - arjvik 4y ago
      How? Don't you have to unlock your number first somehow?
- creeble 4y ago
  You mean increasingly common? I have found that my GV number has become useless for most TOTP services, and for a lot of services that want a number to send a text.
  - Zigurd 4y ago
    Both based on my experiences and having worked on mobile infrastructure (though not messaging), I am puzzled why this would trend in the wrong direction. Messaging is all IP since LTE. I can imagine poor integration/operations in parts of networks still using an SMSC and IP/SM gateway. But why would there be a general trend against interoperation?
    - creeble 4y ago
      I think because 100% of Google Voice numbers are forwarding numbers, and 2fa folks feel like that is a risk factor. I really don’t know, but I do know it’s trending that way for GV, specifically.
shrubble 4y ago
First I would use unlec.com to determine where it is currently allocated. The SPID/OCN tells you who has it. SPID = Service Provider ID; OCN = Operating Company Name. Then look at the LNP history, which is the history of who and when the number was assigned/re-assigned over the years. Tell both companies that you will be involving the FCC and try to reach the "porting group" who will be able to fix this. Porting problems happen all the time, even with 99% of ports (that might be an optimistic number) happening in a nearly-automatic fashion. (EDIT: I mean the porting group at each company, not the FCC).
- flerchin 4y ago
  Wow TIL.
- samwillis 4y ago
  Is there an equivalent site for the UK?
  - daveoc64 4y ago
    The only thing I know of for the UK that's sort of similar (but not really), is this one: https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm If you put in a landline or mobile telephone prefix, it can tell you which network the number was originally allocated to, but it can't tell you if the number has been ported.
  - nomercy400 4y ago
    Aren't all UK numbers owned by BT?
  - piqufoh 4y ago
    I don't have such a rich source as OP, but Ofcom have some information https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/inform... https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/numbering-data https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/inform...
readme 4y ago
Hey this is Doug from T-Mobile. I'm just calling to let you know that we've sold your phone number and you'll be getting a new one.
jve 4y ago
Looks like you haven't got past 1st level support to have someone technical to look at this. Maybe their CRM "lost your number". Anyways, there are good suggestions on this thread. And telling you are going to involve some 3rd party like FCC should get you past 1st level support, I hope.
estromlund 4y ago
I operate a telephony service (perhaps similar to the one you parked your number at) and we do thousands of ports a year from our service to major carriers. Porting is such a backwards pre-internet system and things go wrong all the time unfortunately. My guess is that the port went through but US Mobile has lost it in their system. One of the biggest issues I see is when porting from a VoIP service to a carrier. The carrier doesn't always know what to do since it is slightly outside normal; the majority of their customers are moving between major carriers. But now your number has been classified as a "wireline" (VoIP) number and US Mobile is probably confused. Honestly, I bet it magically arrives at US Mobile after a bit of time. But if you can't wait, I'd engage the VoIP service again. They likely operate downstream from a provider such as Bandwidth, Twilio, or similar. Their team can ask their upstream provider for a "snapback" of the number - essentially they can go take it back. That will leave you with your number back at the VoIP service to try again when you're ready :) With all that said, I do have access to these upstream systems and some more advanced lookup tools. Shoot me an email (in bio) with your number and I can do some research for you if you want. Good luck!
throwaway413 4y ago
Same thing happened to me about 5 months ago. I ended up email the CEO. Had an executive relations staffer email me back within minutes, and I had my number back within about a day. YMMV.
bluedino 4y ago
In the old days we'd have hundreds of DID numbers, and we'd port service from whatever provider was the best deal at the time...we ALWAYS lost a number or two. At some point I think AT&T or McLeod even said "What number do you want to lose when you port this?"
mattmaroon 4y ago
That’s not what gaslighting means. I really want to punch whoever entered this phrase into the popular lexicon because it’s used incorrectly at least 99% of the time.
aluminussoma 4y ago
I feel for the OP. I would just like to plug a good porting experience I had with Twilio recently. I ported a phone number from Vonage to Twilio. They did an excellent job keeping me up to date. I totally expected something to screw up, especially on the Vonage side.
llagerlof 4y ago
This is one of the reasons I don't trust 2FA. Too easy to lost access to online accounts.
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
Call a lawyer.
quaffapint 4y ago
Have you tried the folks at the USMobile subreddit... https://www.reddit.com/r/USMobile/ https://www.reddit.com/r/USMobile/ ...There are employees over there. Also, hopefully your previous service hasn't been cancelled.
viburnum 4y ago
When this happened to me I called the investor relations number and the next day a VP called me and said it was sorted out.
digisocialnet 4y ago
I've had that happen, i tweeted to verizon and they fixed it.
tatersolid 4y ago
We recently "lost" a business number during porting. We had a consecutive block of 400 numbers, but a single number was mysteriously ported to a company called "Neutral Tandem" instead of to our new carrier. Baffling. Nobody from our new or old carrier has any relationship with them, nor could they do figure out how that happened. Nobody from either carrier could get the number back after several weeks of effort. When contacting Neutral Tandem we got a "You're not our customer, and we have no records of you owning that number. So we can't tell you what happened or how to fix it, sorry." So the number is effectively gone, and I am experiencing neat-nick anguish from having a single hole in our beautiful list of 400 consecutive numbers (which have been used at our company for more than 40 years). Anyone from Neutral Tandem (now called Inteliquent I think) here on HN and willing to help?
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  I'm willing to bet the following has happened: - You are customer ID 150 in your new carrier's DB - When porting, a manual fat finger linked that number to customer 151 - Customer 151 is a reseller and has Neutral Tandem as a customer - The new carrier's customer service UI only shows ownership based on the first number of the block I run a telco and have seen similar issues happen many times. Have the tech team trace and see if a test call you make to the number routes via them. If so, it's their issue.
- drfuchs 4y ago
  What happens if you call the number?
  - tatersolid 4y ago
    We get a "not in service" message, same as we did since the day of the mis-port (which is several months ago at this point).
MerelyMortal 4y ago
Ask your U.S. Senator's office for help.
4806813215 4y ago
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helmsb 4y ago
This brings back memories. I was working for Cingular when WLNP was first introduced. People were constantly trying to swap and chase after the deals, because every carrier was trying to outdo the next with a better deal. At the time, Verizon system, apparently just didn’t work. We were seeing greater than 90% failures porting from Verizon to Cingular. The Verizon system would release the number, but then never send us the request to transfer. We would call Verizon’s WLNP support and they would just shrug and say there was nothing they could do. There were so many irate people that had lost their numbers. We found sprint to be the most reliable It was a long couple of months while the bugs were worked out.
4806813215 4y ago

hirundo 4y ago

I just had a similar experience. I cancelled my landline phone service, and was told that I cannot port the number anywhere, or even forward it to another number. The only way I can retain access to it is to retain my phone service with Western New Mexico Telephone. I thought there were phone number portability laws. Do they exist? Are they full of loopholes? Are they being flouted?

astura 4y ago
> I thought there were phone number portability laws. For wireless carriers, yes. I'm not familiar with any for landlines. Edit: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph... Looks like small providers don't have to do any porting, plus as a sibling comment pointed out, you can't port a number after you cancel service.
- ghaff 4y ago
  At least historically, the area code and exchange was determined by your physical location. So if you moved to a different exchange you couldn’t keep your number. In fact I had a case where I switched from Verizon without moving. But Comcast’s switching gear was in a different exchange so they had to change my number. This was a while back. There may be more flexibility today.
  - astura 4y ago
    Yeah, I figured this out as a kid. I could tell which neighborhood people lived or a business was located solely based on phone number.
Spare_account 4y ago
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph... The rules appear to apply to "wireline" as well as "wireless" providers. I don't know if the FCC uses the term "wireline" to refer to something unexpected, but my best guess is that your experience breached the FCC rules. There is a complaint link on that FCC page.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wtallis 4y ago
  The actual rules are at https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-52/subpart-C https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B... In particular, https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-52/subpart-C/section-52.34 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-B... has what seems to me like pretty strong language: > 47 CFR 52.34(c) Telecommunications carriers must facilitate an end-user customer's valid number portability request either to or from an interconnected VoIP or VRS or IP Relay provider. “Facilitate” is defined as the telecommunication carrier's affirmative legal obligation to take all steps necessary to initiate or allow a port-in or port-out itself, subject to a valid port request, without unreasonable delay or unreasonable procedures that have the effect of delaying or denying porting of the NANP-based telephone number.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dec0dedab0de 4y ago
You can't port it if the number is cancelled. You have to sign up for the new provider and have them take the number. Every provider can just take any number they want. I used to work at a small Telco/CLEC and occasionally I would have to fill in on the phone switch to do things like this. It was very nerve wracking. Kind of like editing BGP, knowing that a typo could effect a ton of people. So just don't tell your current provider, the new one should be able to handle it.
toast0 4y ago
Wireline porting requirements are limited; the original carrier only has to port to carriers in tge same wire center (also known as central office). If there's no other carriers, you can't port. If your wireline carrier hasn't been (re)absorbed into ATT, Verizon, or Frontier, it might be small enough that there's no competitive carriers in their central offices.
smolder 4y ago
I think maybe you need to initiate the port to a new carrier and then cancel existing service? Otherwise they may just release the number to the available pool as soon as you cancel, and then the answer really would be that they can't port it anywhere, since they don't control it.

realgeniushere 4y ago

Complain to the FCC for one. This process is highly regulated.

dcormier 4y ago
Here’s the link: https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=39744 https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?tic...
tinus_hn 4y ago
No it’s not. The only thing regulated is that phone companies have to make the numbers portable so they can’t hold them hostage. But you don’t own any right to your number, if there is a renumbering you are SOL. The number can’t be gone of course, it belongs to a range operated by a provider (where it originally came from) who can see who it is being forwarded to. But no one is under any obligation to help you with that setup. All they have to do is make a credible offer to port the number if you move to another provider.
- realgeniushere 4y ago
  Not sure what you’re on about, but every provider is going to offer new customers a porting service to encourage you to switch. And with a few exceptions (moving from wired to wired in a new geographic area, or moving certain small rural providers), your old carrier must let the new carrier port the number.
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    That is the same thing. Practically the original provider has to offer a service where they forward your number to a new carrier. But that doesn’t mean the customer has some kind of ownership like claim to the number.
    - realgeniushere 4y ago
      Not practically, legally. Not sure what the significance of metaphysical ownership or the lack thereof is. The FCC enforces these rules.

ckdarby 4y ago

I doubt it being hundreds of hours. Most will require two government IDs to be sent in to remove 2FA and 1-2 week process to review & confirm. Moving forward you should look at Yubikey where you can with the backup being your phone via Authenticator app.

jobigoud 4y ago
You can already do backups with Authy but I think OP's issue is for SMS-based 2FA which is still very common.
- realgeniushere 4y ago
  Don’t you need your phone number to authenticate with Authy to get into the backups?
  - OJFord 4y ago
    No. That might be a possible backup, but the usual way is any current logged-in device + password.
    - realgeniushere 4y ago
      Uhh, if you need a currently logged in device to bypass the phone number login, then I wouldn’t say it’s a “possible backup”. Phone number is the primary authentication mechanism for Authy.
      - n0mn 4y ago
        If you have “Allow Multi-Device” enabled, your keys are stored on Authy’s servers. You simply download Authy on a new device, sign into your account and you are done.
        realgeniushere 4y ago
        How do you sign into your Authy account? For me, it asks to send an SMS to my phone.

cnity 4y ago

Can't help you sorry, but this also is such a massive downside to 2FA. It's totally possible to get locked out of your services semi-permanently due to really simple or likely mishaps. I've encountered a similar but less problematic version of this simply by being abroad somewhere my provider didn't cover.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ashurov 4y ago
I have this issue with Google and no way to get any support or help to get this resolved. I just have to accept i’ve lost access forever…
- twawaaay 4y ago
  Free account? When you are paying customer you are also getting the privilege of contacting the support. I think it is fair that Google does not want to directly talk to billions of people using their services and not paying a cent for it. You get it for free? It is up to you to make sure you don't loose access.
  - ashurov 4y ago
    Yes, free account. And having lost the ability to do 2FA I probably won’t be able to upgrade it. I’m fine paying for support, but that is not even provided as far as I know (for free accounts).
    - twawaaay 4y ago
      It is a bit as with insurance. You pay insurance in case something happens. The insurance model is based on the assumption that a lot of people will be paying for it without getting the insurance back, otherwise it does not make financial sense. The cheapest paid workspace account is cheap enough that it probably costs less than processing a single support ticket. Remember, when you loose access you are probably looking at multiple touch points and multiple people on their side to get you back. You wouldn't want any single person to be able to just change whatever they want? So if they allowed it, people would just pay for the privilege once to get the problem resolved and then downgrade themselves back after one month. The issue here is that the ratio of free accounts to paid accounts is so high that if any support was allowed for unpaid accounts it would absolutely deluge the system and paid accounts would have to pay a lot more to cover the cost of support for unpaid accounts. But I do think they could provide a paid support ticket where you can pay an amount that would cover their costs (and of course then some) for a single support request. The issue with this is that somebody could do this to "recover" account that does not belong to them. Paradoxically, there is some extra security in not allowing any social hacking by just not allowing any manual work on the account.

wccrawford 4y ago

If it were me, I'd already have started moving on. Any legal recourse is going to take a rather long time. And you've already tried to get each service to grab the number. So if anything is time sensitive, I'd choose to do what I could. Possibly with a different company than either of those 2.

Spare_account 4y ago

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph... There's a complaint link on that page

koolba 4y ago

Why would T-mobile have your number if you ported it out to the VOIP service a year ago? Did you ever confirm it arrived at the VOIP service? The last place you can confirm you had access to the number is where you should be looking.

aussieshibe 4y ago
I think the OP meant the VoIP service was provided by T-Mobile.
- sydbarrett74 4y ago
  T-Mobile and US Mobile are the two companies at fault. The VoIP service is a third party (NB the use of the indefinite article).

zahma 4y ago

Recently I switched to Verizon from a pre-paid service subsidiary of T-Mobile and had some porting issues myself. I totally commiserate with you, but there is hope. I left the store at end-of-business before the porting was totally complete and the in-store rep couldn't contact the porting team because they'd already gone home. I had data and could receive incoming messages but couldn't make outgoing calls or texts. The in-store rep assured me I could handle this myself the following day. He didn't mention the hours of bullshit I'd endure. I persevered for the same reasons as our Bojangles Aficionado above, but, honestly, I don't know that I saved myself the time that would otherwise have been spent re-authorizing myself on my 2FA accounts. The gist of the story is that the junky prepaid service didn't give me the right account info from the start, so when it came time to port, Verizon couldn't help me unless I produced account numbers, PINs, and zip-codes. The zip-code was from an address I haven't lived at for 10+ years. (That remains a mystery and is somewhat concerning.) At some point, I was trying to socially engineer the zip-code out of the T-mobile subsidiary rep, which eventually just turned into a plea. I don't have a magic solution for you, but here are some thoughts about how I'd approach your situation: * I would recommend continuing to call and escalating as high as you can go. My principle with customer service of major corporations is that if I don't like the response I get, I call back a maximum number of three times. If I get the same response 3x in a row, then that's a hard policy that I'm not going to bypass. Chances are though, whether by human error or a policy designed to be flexible, I will get some leeway. * Related to the above, in calling back a few times, you might find that the technician you talk to in subsequent attempts is more qualified, experienced, or simply desires to handle your problem efficiently. Essentially, play the game more to win. * I would also recommend getting T-Mobile and US Mobile on the phone with one another. They have the capacity to do this, and they might discover the problem together as opposed to being able to punt to the other side. Make yourself a nuisance. At the end of the day, you're in the right here. * Last bit of advice I can impart is make sure you are absolutely speaking to the right team. Most customer service lines are structured in such a way that the first line (FLS) filters out people who don't need specialized help. The problem I faced with Verizon was being asked repeatedly by FLS who staffed the Porting hotline number to do the same troubleshooting steps (e.g. reset network settings on my phone) before speaking to the actual team who handled porting. Verizon might not be structured like T-Mobile or US Mobile, but at some point I was getting detailed information about the status of the Port from a Tech Support rep who ultimately had to hand me off to the Porting team to finalize it. Good luck!

beprogrammed 4y ago

Yeah they will do that when they're being idiots, which is quite often. There should be a hold on it being reassigned, if the porting request is recent, keep on hounding them until they get it worked out, if it's been awhile, you're probably hosed.

themitigating 4y ago

If you parked it at a VOIP how were you able to use the 2fa?

bojangleslover 4y ago
My VoIP had an SMS feature that I used from their web UI

nicknow 4y ago

Can you provide some additional details on the VoIP service? When you say "parking it on a VoIP service" do you mean that you ported from T-Mobile to the VoIP service or do you mean you forwarded your calls to a VoIP line and continued to pay for T-Mobile? Who botched the port request? You would have initiated the port request via US Mobile when you signed up for service. They wouldn't depend on T-Mobile "having the number", they would have looked up who had the number and initiated the porting process. You can see which carrier "owns" your number by going to https://freecarrierlookup.com/ https://freecarrierlookup.com/. Now, if you cancelled your service BEFORE you ported the number, then you may be SOL as the number would have been released. Even if not reassigned you may not be able to get the provider/carrier to release it since it is no longer in your name.

bojangleslover 4y ago
I ported from VoIP to T-Mobile successfully, then tried to port from T-Mobile to US Mobile because US Mobile is $15/month. I did not cancel before I had the number.
beezle 4y ago
Not 100% sure but think that link only provides the original carrier, not necessarily the current.

alanbernstein 4y ago

Something similar happened to me: my phone number of 15 years was active on the Sprint cell network via an MVNO. Evidently, when the network was decommissioned, the phone number "disappeared" with it. According to the carrier, it was my responsibility to switch to a new SIM card. The company never notified me of that responsibility, or the deadline. In July, the number stopped working, and I spent maybe 20 fruitless hours on phone support with my carrier, with T-Mobile (since they are the operator of the Sprint network), and with Sprint (which I guess sort of still exists despite being acquired by T-Mobile). The MVNO subreddit had several agents handling this exact problem, claiming they could fix it, but they could not. I ended up getting one piece of potentially useful advice: after a while, the phone number will possibly get recycled into a generally available pool. IF that happens, and IF I check at the right time, I MAY be able to purchase the number at https://www.numberbarn.com/ https://www.numberbarn.com/. After all that, I just ended up getting a new number. It has now been four months. I check that site a few times a week, no luck yet. I also call the number occasionally, I have a script prepared to try to convince whoever answers to listen to my stupid plea. It's still disconnected. As for moving forward: just get a new number. You may get the old one back eventually, but don't count on it happening at all, especially not quickly. I had no trouble updating my number for bank accounts. I don't understand why you would be stuck with your old number for a background check service, seems like you should just be able to provide them with a new number.

exikyut 4y ago
Once unlec.com is back up (see other comment) - I'm very curious where the number currently is at?
- alanbernstein 4y ago
  Here are the most obviously meaningful fields in the result: port date 2022-10-20 15:46:07 spid name Sprint PCS-10X/2 ocn name OMNIPOINT COMMUNICATIONS MIDWEST OPERATIONS LLC nn description T-Mobile lnp history is blank or not working.
  - 4y ago

amsterdorn 4y ago

Not to pile on but this is just one of the many reasons why SMS is bad for 2FA. https://sec.okta.com/articles/2020/05/sms-two-factor-authentication-worse-just-good-password https://sec.okta.com/articles/2020/05/sms-two-factor-authent...

latentpot 4y ago

Solution - need some big pull to get this done. The number needs to be recreated at the original provider (assuming no one else has picked it up), activated, ported multiple times (if you have ported earlier) and then brought to the current final provider. Source - lost a 20+ year old number during a port activity the same way. Fortunately the provider was a client, and got a circle head involved to recover the number in the way it is mentioned above. Took a week.

jrochkind1 4y ago
"circle head"?
- davchana 4y ago
  Some higher up executive. Geographical Circle Operations Head maybe.

Zigurd 4y ago

This is one reason why I have a Google Voice number. If my underlying. number is "lost" I can just reconfigure GV. But there is some (increasingly rare) 2FA that does not work with numbers other than telco numbers. When you sign up an SMS vendor for 2FA, make sure it works with VoIP services.

rdbell 4y ago
This is even worse. You’re boned when Google bans your account and refuses to tell you why.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  You can still port your number away from Google even if they ban you.
  - arjvik 4y ago
    How? Don't you have to unlock your number first somehow?
creeble 4y ago
You mean increasingly common? I have found that my GV number has become useless for most TOTP services, and for a lot of services that want a number to send a text.
- Zigurd 4y ago
  Both based on my experiences and having worked on mobile infrastructure (though not messaging), I am puzzled why this would trend in the wrong direction. Messaging is all IP since LTE. I can imagine poor integration/operations in parts of networks still using an SMSC and IP/SM gateway. But why would there be a general trend against interoperation?
  - creeble 4y ago
    I think because 100% of Google Voice numbers are forwarding numbers, and 2fa folks feel like that is a risk factor. I really don’t know, but I do know it’s trending that way for GV, specifically.

shrubble 4y ago

First I would use unlec.com to determine where it is currently allocated. The SPID/OCN tells you who has it. SPID = Service Provider ID; OCN = Operating Company Name. Then look at the LNP history, which is the history of who and when the number was assigned/re-assigned over the years. Tell both companies that you will be involving the FCC and try to reach the "porting group" who will be able to fix this. Porting problems happen all the time, even with 99% of ports (that might be an optimistic number) happening in a nearly-automatic fashion. (EDIT: I mean the porting group at each company, not the FCC).

flerchin 4y ago
Wow TIL.
samwillis 4y ago
Is there an equivalent site for the UK?
- daveoc64 4y ago
  The only thing I know of for the UK that's sort of similar (but not really), is this one: https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm If you put in a landline or mobile telephone prefix, it can tell you which network the number was originally allocated to, but it can't tell you if the number has been ported.
- nomercy400 4y ago
  Aren't all UK numbers owned by BT?
- piqufoh 4y ago
  I don't have such a rich source as OP, but Ofcom have some information https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/inform... https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/numbering-data https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/inform...

readme 4y ago

Hey this is Doug from T-Mobile. I'm just calling to let you know that we've sold your phone number and you'll be getting a new one.

jve 4y ago

Looks like you haven't got past 1st level support to have someone technical to look at this. Maybe their CRM "lost your number". Anyways, there are good suggestions on this thread. And telling you are going to involve some 3rd party like FCC should get you past 1st level support, I hope.

estromlund 4y ago

I operate a telephony service (perhaps similar to the one you parked your number at) and we do thousands of ports a year from our service to major carriers. Porting is such a backwards pre-internet system and things go wrong all the time unfortunately. My guess is that the port went through but US Mobile has lost it in their system. One of the biggest issues I see is when porting from a VoIP service to a carrier. The carrier doesn't always know what to do since it is slightly outside normal; the majority of their customers are moving between major carriers. But now your number has been classified as a "wireline" (VoIP) number and US Mobile is probably confused. Honestly, I bet it magically arrives at US Mobile after a bit of time. But if you can't wait, I'd engage the VoIP service again. They likely operate downstream from a provider such as Bandwidth, Twilio, or similar. Their team can ask their upstream provider for a "snapback" of the number - essentially they can go take it back. That will leave you with your number back at the VoIP service to try again when you're ready :) With all that said, I do have access to these upstream systems and some more advanced lookup tools. Shoot me an email (in bio) with your number and I can do some research for you if you want. Good luck!

throwaway413 4y ago

Same thing happened to me about 5 months ago. I ended up email the CEO. Had an executive relations staffer email me back within minutes, and I had my number back within about a day. YMMV.

bluedino 4y ago

In the old days we'd have hundreds of DID numbers, and we'd port service from whatever provider was the best deal at the time...we ALWAYS lost a number or two. At some point I think AT&T or McLeod even said "What number do you want to lose when you port this?"

mattmaroon 4y ago

That’s not what gaslighting means. I really want to punch whoever entered this phrase into the popular lexicon because it’s used incorrectly at least 99% of the time.

aluminussoma 4y ago

I feel for the OP. I would just like to plug a good porting experience I had with Twilio recently. I ported a phone number from Vonage to Twilio. They did an excellent job keeping me up to date. I totally expected something to screw up, especially on the Vonage side.

llagerlof 4y ago

This is one of the reasons I don't trust 2FA. Too easy to lost access to online accounts.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

Call a lawyer.

quaffapint 4y ago

Have you tried the folks at the USMobile subreddit... https://www.reddit.com/r/USMobile/ https://www.reddit.com/r/USMobile/ ...There are employees over there. Also, hopefully your previous service hasn't been cancelled.

viburnum 4y ago

When this happened to me I called the investor relations number and the next day a VP called me and said it was sorted out.

digisocialnet 4y ago

I've had that happen, i tweeted to verizon and they fixed it.

tatersolid 4y ago

We recently "lost" a business number during porting. We had a consecutive block of 400 numbers, but a single number was mysteriously ported to a company called "Neutral Tandem" instead of to our new carrier. Baffling. Nobody from our new or old carrier has any relationship with them, nor could they do figure out how that happened. Nobody from either carrier could get the number back after several weeks of effort. When contacting Neutral Tandem we got a "You're not our customer, and we have no records of you owning that number. So we can't tell you what happened or how to fix it, sorry." So the number is effectively gone, and I am experiencing neat-nick anguish from having a single hole in our beautiful list of 400 consecutive numbers (which have been used at our company for more than 40 years). Anyone from Neutral Tandem (now called Inteliquent I think) here on HN and willing to help?

TheHappyOddish 4y ago
I'm willing to bet the following has happened: - You are customer ID 150 in your new carrier's DB - When porting, a manual fat finger linked that number to customer 151 - Customer 151 is a reseller and has Neutral Tandem as a customer - The new carrier's customer service UI only shows ownership based on the first number of the block I run a telco and have seen similar issues happen many times. Have the tech team trace and see if a test call you make to the number routes via them. If so, it's their issue.
drfuchs 4y ago
What happens if you call the number?
- tatersolid 4y ago
  We get a "not in service" message, same as we did since the day of the mis-port (which is several months ago at this point).

MerelyMortal 4y ago

Ask your U.S. Senator's office for help.

4806813215 4y ago

helmsb 4y ago

This brings back memories. I was working for Cingular when WLNP was first introduced. People were constantly trying to swap and chase after the deals, because every carrier was trying to outdo the next with a better deal. At the time, Verizon system, apparently just didn’t work. We were seeing greater than 90% failures porting from Verizon to Cingular. The Verizon system would release the number, but then never send us the request to transfer. We would call Verizon’s WLNP support and they would just shrug and say there was nothing they could do. There were so many irate people that had lost their numbers. We found sprint to be the most reliable It was a long couple of months while the bugs were worked out.

4806813215 4y ago