7 ms·

They also don’t care about locking you permanently out of your own e-Mail with no warning, for no reason, with no recourse. Honestly - there are far better opt

They also don’t care about locking you permanently out of your own e-Mail with no warning, for no reason, with no recourse. Honestly - there are far better options out there. They’re not in anyway a responsible enough business to manage an e-mail service. It’s run more like a hobby project than critical infrastructure.

mr_mitm 4y ago
What are those better options that HN likes? I just switched all my accounts to protonmail, but stories like this make me want to reconsider. The fact that they won't allow me to set up a forwarding rule in case I want to switch again doesn't help.
- gobip 4y ago
  HN is hooked on fastmail which is a great provider to be honest. Have a look at mailbox.org which is in business since the 90s too. Avoid the privacy trending providers promising you to encrypt your emails.
  - akvadrako 4y ago
    I second mailbox.org. Didn't want to use fastmail since it's based in Australia instead of the EU.
  - twleo 4y ago
    FastMail takes on PGP is very reasonable. https://fastmail.blog/advanced/why-we-dont-offer-pgp/ https://fastmail.blog/advanced/why-we-dont-offer-pgp/ I don't believe the encryption/key management from a company.
- Toutouxc 4y ago
  First of all, bring your own domain. That way you can just point the same address elsewhere if you need to switch again without having to deal with forwarding. edit: As mentioned by a sibling comment, my email is currently on Fastmail, zero problems.
  - mr_mitm 4y ago
    Sounds reasonable. Any gotchas there? I already read that vanity TLDs are bad, obscure countries' TLDs are bad, and even .eu may be unstable. Which are good services that can sell me an .org or .de domain for a fair price?
    - severino 4y ago
      > and even .eu may be unstable Do you mean you can lose your domain if your country leaves the EU, or are you talking about other issues?
      - mr_mitm 4y ago
        Yes, that's what I had in mind, I may be wrong though. Did any Brits have issues with eu domains after Brexit?
        c12 4y ago
        Yes, but that was due to Brexit. .eu domains may only be registered to a person or entity that exists within the EU. As soon as Brexit crystallised any British person or entity owning a .eu domain was unable to renew it unless they had an address they legally occupied within an EU country. I know a few companies who rented a small amount of office space in France so that they could retain their .eu domain.
        severino 4y ago
        I guess you can get a .eu domain for ten years. So that could be an option to make sure you have enough time to shift to another domain should your country leave the EU too. Assuming, well, that the EU won't take it away from you before the expiry date just because you lost your EU residence.
    - akvadrako 4y ago
      Obscure country TLDs are fine. I've been using https://doubly.so https://doubly.so for a decade and never had trouble with emails.
- BluSyn 4y ago
  FWIW, I went from gmail -> protonmail -> fastmail, and have been very happy with fastmail. protonmail is great as a secure disposable email, but as a go-to daily email service I found it too difficult to manage. Hard to use other email clients due to requiring this bridge, and their mobile apps and web guis are just not up-to-par with other offerings. Being able to use any frontend on mobile (and not deal with complicated proxy setups) was my biggest issue. Using a custom domain has made the switches easier, as I don't have to tell anyone to update their contacts or worry about forwarding. Just exporting/importing, change some MX records, and I can switch providers any time.
  - tikkabhuna 4y ago
    I did the same thing. Custom domain with Protonmail. Ended up frustrated that I couldn't set up forwarding rules and alike. I realised I didn't need the privacy as much as I needed features. Swapping from Protonmail to Fastmail was super easy. Exported all my email, imported into Fastmail, and swapped over the DNS records. Took me a couple of hours in between other tasks.
- mostafah 4y ago
  I’ve been a Fastmail user for about a decade (I just checked; wow!) and am very, very happy with them. I wish more companies were like them. The service is very reliable, the product is great, their support is amazing and very kind. A lot of companies get distracted by big pivots and hyper-growth ideas, while companies like Fastmail focus on doing their main job very well.
  - vr46 4y ago
    Today I've just given up on Protonmail, the Bridge is a POS. When things were reliable, I was ok to jump through hoops in maintaining a separate app, but I cannot be bothered any longer. Just set up a Fastmail account to see what it's all about.
- twleo 4y ago
  I uses FastMail after I discover this serious issue about Proton. I would say it work flawlessly and their web mail client is super fast; even faster than Gmail. Besides, FastMail exists before Gmail and the people in FastMail are active standard protocol developers like IMAP and recently JMAP (a modern mail protocol will replace SMTP/IMAP, FastMail as a reference implementation), which is good because at least I know they understand the protocol and implement it by themselves.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    > even faster than Gmail. It’s really fast, but come on, that’s one low bar to jump over. Gmail is the electron of mail interfaces.
- RealStickman_ 4y ago
  I've switched to mailbox.org. They allow boring old IMAP/SMTP (that's good) and are EU-based.
  - uselpa 4y ago
    Same here, mailbox.org with custom .eu domain. Very reliable.
- worble 4y ago
  Happy user of Migadu here, mostly because they let you bring as many domain names as you want and just charge usage.
- andrewmi 4y ago
  I'm a happy customer of Zoho Mail
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  Anyone has experience with hey.com?
  - benhurmarcel 4y ago
    I tried it for a year. I'm quite positive on it, nice interface and unique useful features, and it's reliable in my experience. However you have to be ok with its particularities, mainly that it doesn't have IMAP, and it's expensive. Ultimately it's for people who love their unique interface/features, and don't mind paying so much for email.
- wccrawford 4y ago
  I've been using Purelymail for quite a while now and I've been happy with it.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  I personally use mailbox.org for years now. Granted, I don't have remotely the usage mentioned in the linked issue and I know users that aren't very satisfied with features like the integrated office webapp, but it does everything I need (emails & calendar sync) and I haven't found a reason not to trust them. Originally my reason to choose them instead of Protonmail was that Protonmail only works with their official client, which is a far too limiting dependency in my eyes.
gobip 4y ago
What would you recommend? I'd recommend fastmail or mailbox.org
waynesonfire 4y ago
Yep, I encountered this and will not renew the service next year as a result.
jrootabega 4y ago
I think it's worse than that - they are well into the stage of growth where privacy and reliability are just marketing deceptions. Some other recent data points: - They suddenly weakened a privacy setting, and even exposed some client IPs for good measure. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33375424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33375424 - Yesterday they decided to throw up a big modal advertisement for a bulk plan at login, even to paying customers. Note that they chose NOT to do this for the aforementioned privacy-weakening change. - https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/yj5m59/pm_visionary_back_not_sure_how_long_worth_it/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/yj5m59/pm_visio...
- OneLeggedCat 4y ago
  That changed setting should have been a huge story. I've paid for ProtonMail for like 6 years now, and this was the most disappointing thing I've dealt with.
  - jrootabega 4y ago
    Thank you; it's frustrating that this isn't being covered more widely, but good to know that there are people who see the problem. If nothing else, don't give up trying to inform people!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ClawsOnPaws 4y ago
Randomly, I get locked out of my Protonmail webmail interface by an hCaptcha. This in itself isn't a problem. The problem starts because I can't actually see the captcha images. So in order to get at my email, I have to provide hCaptcha with a third party email which isn't protonmail, and enable third party cookies and/or install a browser extension for them to set an "accessibility cookie" to get past the captcha. And, well, nobody wants to do anything about that either. I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem reasonable to me.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  You should investigate what's blocking the images, as that is the true source of the issue.

mr_mitm 4y ago

What are those better options that HN likes? I just switched all my accounts to protonmail, but stories like this make me want to reconsider. The fact that they won't allow me to set up a forwarding rule in case I want to switch again doesn't help.

gobip 4y ago
HN is hooked on fastmail which is a great provider to be honest. Have a look at mailbox.org which is in business since the 90s too. Avoid the privacy trending providers promising you to encrypt your emails.
- akvadrako 4y ago
  I second mailbox.org. Didn't want to use fastmail since it's based in Australia instead of the EU.
- twleo 4y ago
  FastMail takes on PGP is very reasonable. https://fastmail.blog/advanced/why-we-dont-offer-pgp/ https://fastmail.blog/advanced/why-we-dont-offer-pgp/ I don't believe the encryption/key management from a company.
Toutouxc 4y ago
First of all, bring your own domain. That way you can just point the same address elsewhere if you need to switch again without having to deal with forwarding. edit: As mentioned by a sibling comment, my email is currently on Fastmail, zero problems.
- mr_mitm 4y ago
  Sounds reasonable. Any gotchas there? I already read that vanity TLDs are bad, obscure countries' TLDs are bad, and even .eu may be unstable. Which are good services that can sell me an .org or .de domain for a fair price?
  - severino 4y ago
    > and even .eu may be unstable Do you mean you can lose your domain if your country leaves the EU, or are you talking about other issues?
    - mr_mitm 4y ago
      Yes, that's what I had in mind, I may be wrong though. Did any Brits have issues with eu domains after Brexit?
      - c12 4y ago
        Yes, but that was due to Brexit. .eu domains may only be registered to a person or entity that exists within the EU. As soon as Brexit crystallised any British person or entity owning a .eu domain was unable to renew it unless they had an address they legally occupied within an EU country. I know a few companies who rented a small amount of office space in France so that they could retain their .eu domain.
        severino 4y ago
        I guess you can get a .eu domain for ten years. So that could be an option to make sure you have enough time to shift to another domain should your country leave the EU too. Assuming, well, that the EU won't take it away from you before the expiry date just because you lost your EU residence.
  - akvadrako 4y ago
    Obscure country TLDs are fine. I've been using https://doubly.so https://doubly.so for a decade and never had trouble with emails.
BluSyn 4y ago
FWIW, I went from gmail -> protonmail -> fastmail, and have been very happy with fastmail. protonmail is great as a secure disposable email, but as a go-to daily email service I found it too difficult to manage. Hard to use other email clients due to requiring this bridge, and their mobile apps and web guis are just not up-to-par with other offerings. Being able to use any frontend on mobile (and not deal with complicated proxy setups) was my biggest issue. Using a custom domain has made the switches easier, as I don't have to tell anyone to update their contacts or worry about forwarding. Just exporting/importing, change some MX records, and I can switch providers any time.
- tikkabhuna 4y ago
  I did the same thing. Custom domain with Protonmail. Ended up frustrated that I couldn't set up forwarding rules and alike. I realised I didn't need the privacy as much as I needed features. Swapping from Protonmail to Fastmail was super easy. Exported all my email, imported into Fastmail, and swapped over the DNS records. Took me a couple of hours in between other tasks.
mostafah 4y ago
I’ve been a Fastmail user for about a decade (I just checked; wow!) and am very, very happy with them. I wish more companies were like them. The service is very reliable, the product is great, their support is amazing and very kind. A lot of companies get distracted by big pivots and hyper-growth ideas, while companies like Fastmail focus on doing their main job very well.
- vr46 4y ago
  Today I've just given up on Protonmail, the Bridge is a POS. When things were reliable, I was ok to jump through hoops in maintaining a separate app, but I cannot be bothered any longer. Just set up a Fastmail account to see what it's all about.
twleo 4y ago
I uses FastMail after I discover this serious issue about Proton. I would say it work flawlessly and their web mail client is super fast; even faster than Gmail. Besides, FastMail exists before Gmail and the people in FastMail are active standard protocol developers like IMAP and recently JMAP (a modern mail protocol will replace SMTP/IMAP, FastMail as a reference implementation), which is good because at least I know they understand the protocol and implement it by themselves.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > even faster than Gmail. It’s really fast, but come on, that’s one low bar to jump over. Gmail is the electron of mail interfaces.
RealStickman_ 4y ago
I've switched to mailbox.org. They allow boring old IMAP/SMTP (that's good) and are EU-based.
- uselpa 4y ago
  Same here, mailbox.org with custom .eu domain. Very reliable.
worble 4y ago
Happy user of Migadu here, mostly because they let you bring as many domain names as you want and just charge usage.
andrewmi 4y ago
I'm a happy customer of Zoho Mail
MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
Anyone has experience with hey.com?
- benhurmarcel 4y ago
  I tried it for a year. I'm quite positive on it, nice interface and unique useful features, and it's reliable in my experience. However you have to be ok with its particularities, mainly that it doesn't have IMAP, and it's expensive. Ultimately it's for people who love their unique interface/features, and don't mind paying so much for email.
wccrawford 4y ago
I've been using Purelymail for quite a while now and I've been happy with it.
alpaca128 4y ago
I personally use mailbox.org for years now. Granted, I don't have remotely the usage mentioned in the linked issue and I know users that aren't very satisfied with features like the integrated office webapp, but it does everything I need (emails & calendar sync) and I haven't found a reason not to trust them. Originally my reason to choose them instead of Protonmail was that Protonmail only works with their official client, which is a far too limiting dependency in my eyes.

gobip 4y ago

What would you recommend? I'd recommend fastmail or mailbox.org

waynesonfire 4y ago

Yep, I encountered this and will not renew the service next year as a result.

jrootabega 4y ago

I think it's worse than that - they are well into the stage of growth where privacy and reliability are just marketing deceptions. Some other recent data points: - They suddenly weakened a privacy setting, and even exposed some client IPs for good measure. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33375424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33375424 - Yesterday they decided to throw up a big modal advertisement for a bulk plan at login, even to paying customers. Note that they chose NOT to do this for the aforementioned privacy-weakening change. - https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/yj5m59/pm_visionary_back_not_sure_how_long_worth_it/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/yj5m59/pm_visio...

OneLeggedCat 4y ago
That changed setting should have been a huge story. I've paid for ProtonMail for like 6 years now, and this was the most disappointing thing I've dealt with.
- jrootabega 4y ago
  Thank you; it's frustrating that this isn't being covered more widely, but good to know that there are people who see the problem. If nothing else, don't give up trying to inform people!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ClawsOnPaws 4y ago

Randomly, I get locked out of my Protonmail webmail interface by an hCaptcha. This in itself isn't a problem. The problem starts because I can't actually see the captcha images. So in order to get at my email, I have to provide hCaptcha with a third party email which isn't protonmail, and enable third party cookies and/or install a browser extension for them to set an "accessibility cookie" to get past the captcha. And, well, nobody wants to do anything about that either. I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem reasonable to me.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
You should investigate what's blocking the images, as that is the true source of the issue.