18 ms·

New EU law could force Apple to allow other app stores, sideloading, and more

88 points by kasperni 4y ago

buildartefact 4y ago
Can’t wait for every company to have their own App Store I need to install just to download the one app I want. All the inevitable data mining and security bugs will just be the icing on the cake!
- bobsmooth 4y ago
  Better than having to jailbreak your device, opening it to all manner of attacks, to install an app you want.
  - buildartefact 4y ago
    In what way is that better? Jailbroken iPhones represent a tiny fraction of the devices out there. So now we have to expose everyone for the sake of the “WAlLeD gaRdEn” minority?
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  It’s definitely going to happen. Exactly like for Android which has allowed concurrent app stores for a decade and is now submerged under them. /s
- coutego 4y ago
  No reputable company can afford to do that (as they can't in Android). As for security, etc. nobody will force you to install any third party store (as they don't in Android). Very likely, >99% of people won't install any other store than Apple's, yet they will get the benefits of breaking the monopoly in form of reduced prices, since Apple's premium will have to be determined by the market rather than by extortion.
badRNG 4y ago
Will this law also apply to Nintendo, Xbox, and Play Station systems?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lost_tourist 4y ago
  They're just going for the elephant in the room first. Cell phones are ubiquitous and touch most facets of modern life, game stations do not.
- Someone 4y ago
  I would think Nintendo and Sony wouldn’t pass the bar for being a gatekeeper because they don’t provide “a core platform service to more than 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the EU _AND_(emphasis_added)_ to more than 10,000 yearly active business users established in the EU;” (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_22_6423/IP_22_6423_EN.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/docume...) Xbox will be an interesting case. Microsoft easily passes that bar, but I would think that product doesn’t. I guess splitting iOS in a consumer version and a business version would be a way to get around the letter of that law, but I expect the EU wouldn’t be happy with that, and very rapidly “designate the company as a gatekeeper on the basis of a qualitative assessment, even if it does not meet the quantitative thresholds” (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_20_2349 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_...)
  - rahkiin 4y ago
    Game developers are business users though, aren’t they?
cercatrova 4y ago
This is the only way I'd ever get an iPhone. You can rip YouTube (Re)Vanced from my cold, head hands.
- Scaevolus 4y ago
  Does it provide significant features beyond being ad free? I pay for Premium, largely because it's too annoying running adblockers on mobile and TVs.
  - cercatrova 4y ago
    SponsorBlock removes in-video sponsors but also a lot of filler content like intros and endings, and even filler in between like joke content, if you configure it that way.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Not to mention, if you get YouTube premium you also get YouTube Music ad-free. Ads in music players are far more annoying IMO.
    - cercatrova 4y ago
      Vanced and Revanced work for YouTube Music too.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    Lots of quality of life stuff. Sponsorblock (it doesn't only skip sponsor messages but also subscribe-whining, which I find way worse), background playback (can you believe they took this away?) and the ability to set playback speeds beyond 2x are the features that immediately come to my mind. > I pay for Premium, largely because it's too annoying running adblockers on mobile and TVs. I don't use iOS because ad blocking is too cumbersome there and only watch YouTube videos on my TV by mirroring my laptop's screen. Every once in a while I consider subscribing to YouTube premium but then I remember that I'd still have to mod to get a (somewhat) tolerable experience.
- 4y ago
vivaldidev 4y ago
Bring it on, time to bring down the walled gardens once and for all. 30% is highway robbery and Apple is making off like a bandit. Epic, Spotify, and others all see this. Time to see the fruit company humbled.
- webmobdev 4y ago
  And hopefully we shall see more open source projects flourishing on iDevices - Apple app store has crippled open source development on ios / iPadOS because it lets Apple exploits for-profit developers, while non-profit developers who can't or won't give in to the extortion are denied a platform for their software. It also has been in Apple's interest to not allow open source software to flourish here, as most of them are popular, free and avoid adware (which goes against Apple's tried and tested business model of extorting money from non-free software or pushing "free" apps to bundle ads through their ad platform).
- SkylockeScarred 4y ago
  Apple run their ecosystem like the British Empire ran it's trade, it rarely goes outside of it.
- uni_baconcat 4y ago
  Hope this policy also applied to consoles. They also take 30% from game developers.
  - genocidicbunny 4y ago
    Devil's advocate here: For their cut, the console manufacturers provide more than Apple does. At the very least, you usually have actual humans you can talk to when there are problems. They have a much stronger argument for taking 30%.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      Whether they provide more in exchange for a mandatory fee begs the question of whether the fee should be mandatory in the first place (I.e forced to use their store)
solarkraft 4y ago
I'm extremely interested in the DMA. Does anyone have a detailed explanation of the effects it will have? Everyone talks about the App Store, but what options does Apple have to make the experience miserable? Will Apple be forced to open up all the special treatments they currently give themselves (special APIs for OS integration and policies) to other developers?
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  Yes. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0270_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0270... is the full text. The relevant portion of that is 56/57: >The aim of the obligations is to allow competing third parties to interconnect through interfaces or similar solutions to the respective features as effectively as the gatekeeper’s own services or hardware.
barbazoo 4y ago
Will this have any impact on non EU markets? Similar to the USB-C port ruling, other than practical reasons, it doesn't mean it'll get applied everywhere else. > Apple is also facing similar legislation in the United States, with U.S. House lawmakers in June introducing antitrust bills that would result in major changes to the tech industry if passed. Nice for them to introduce a bill but how much hope is there this will actually become law. And even then, what about other countries?
- Sysctl232 4y ago
  But will it have any impact. Apple was forced to allow third party payment but crippled it with a 27% tax and other roadblocks [0]. I expect side loaded apps will have a host of restrictions making it a poor option. [0]https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/08/apple_payments_developers/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/08/apple_payments_develo...

88 points by kasperni 4y ago

Can’t wait for every company to have their own App Store I need to install just to download the one app I want. All the inevitable data mining and security bugs will just be the icing on the cake!

bobsmooth 4y ago
Better than having to jailbreak your device, opening it to all manner of attacks, to install an app you want.
- buildartefact 4y ago
  In what way is that better? Jailbroken iPhones represent a tiny fraction of the devices out there. So now we have to expose everyone for the sake of the “WAlLeD gaRdEn” minority?
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
It’s definitely going to happen. Exactly like for Android which has allowed concurrent app stores for a decade and is now submerged under them. /s
coutego 4y ago
No reputable company can afford to do that (as they can't in Android). As for security, etc. nobody will force you to install any third party store (as they don't in Android). Very likely, >99% of people won't install any other store than Apple's, yet they will get the benefits of breaking the monopoly in form of reduced prices, since Apple's premium will have to be determined by the market rather than by extortion.

badRNG 4y ago

Will this law also apply to Nintendo, Xbox, and Play Station systems?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lost_tourist 4y ago
They're just going for the elephant in the room first. Cell phones are ubiquitous and touch most facets of modern life, game stations do not.
Someone 4y ago
I would think Nintendo and Sony wouldn’t pass the bar for being a gatekeeper because they don’t provide “a core platform service to more than 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the EU _AND_(emphasis_added)_ to more than 10,000 yearly active business users established in the EU;” (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_22_6423/IP_22_6423_EN.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/docume...) Xbox will be an interesting case. Microsoft easily passes that bar, but I would think that product doesn’t. I guess splitting iOS in a consumer version and a business version would be a way to get around the letter of that law, but I expect the EU wouldn’t be happy with that, and very rapidly “designate the company as a gatekeeper on the basis of a qualitative assessment, even if it does not meet the quantitative thresholds” (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_20_2349 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_...)
- rahkiin 4y ago
  Game developers are business users though, aren’t they?

cercatrova 4y ago

This is the only way I'd ever get an iPhone. You can rip YouTube (Re)Vanced from my cold, head hands.

Scaevolus 4y ago
Does it provide significant features beyond being ad free? I pay for Premium, largely because it's too annoying running adblockers on mobile and TVs.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  SponsorBlock removes in-video sponsors but also a lot of filler content like intros and endings, and even filler in between like joke content, if you configure it that way.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Not to mention, if you get YouTube premium you also get YouTube Music ad-free. Ads in music players are far more annoying IMO.
  - cercatrova 4y ago
    Vanced and Revanced work for YouTube Music too.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  Lots of quality of life stuff. Sponsorblock (it doesn't only skip sponsor messages but also subscribe-whining, which I find way worse), background playback (can you believe they took this away?) and the ability to set playback speeds beyond 2x are the features that immediately come to my mind. > I pay for Premium, largely because it's too annoying running adblockers on mobile and TVs. I don't use iOS because ad blocking is too cumbersome there and only watch YouTube videos on my TV by mirroring my laptop's screen. Every once in a while I consider subscribing to YouTube premium but then I remember that I'd still have to mod to get a (somewhat) tolerable experience.
4y ago

vivaldidev 4y ago

Bring it on, time to bring down the walled gardens once and for all. 30% is highway robbery and Apple is making off like a bandit. Epic, Spotify, and others all see this. Time to see the fruit company humbled.

webmobdev 4y ago
And hopefully we shall see more open source projects flourishing on iDevices - Apple app store has crippled open source development on ios / iPadOS because it lets Apple exploits for-profit developers, while non-profit developers who can't or won't give in to the extortion are denied a platform for their software. It also has been in Apple's interest to not allow open source software to flourish here, as most of them are popular, free and avoid adware (which goes against Apple's tried and tested business model of extorting money from non-free software or pushing "free" apps to bundle ads through their ad platform).
SkylockeScarred 4y ago
Apple run their ecosystem like the British Empire ran it's trade, it rarely goes outside of it.
uni_baconcat 4y ago
Hope this policy also applied to consoles. They also take 30% from game developers.
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  Devil's advocate here: For their cut, the console manufacturers provide more than Apple does. At the very least, you usually have actual humans you can talk to when there are problems. They have a much stronger argument for taking 30%.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Whether they provide more in exchange for a mandatory fee begs the question of whether the fee should be mandatory in the first place (I.e forced to use their store)

solarkraft 4y ago

I'm extremely interested in the DMA. Does anyone have a detailed explanation of the effects it will have? Everyone talks about the App Store, but what options does Apple have to make the experience miserable? Will Apple be forced to open up all the special treatments they currently give themselves (special APIs for OS integration and policies) to other developers?

ThatPlayer 4y ago
Yes. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0270_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0270... is the full text. The relevant portion of that is 56/57: >The aim of the obligations is to allow competing third parties to interconnect through interfaces or similar solutions to the respective features as effectively as the gatekeeper’s own services or hardware.

barbazoo 4y ago

Will this have any impact on non EU markets? Similar to the USB-C port ruling, other than practical reasons, it doesn't mean it'll get applied everywhere else. > Apple is also facing similar legislation in the United States, with U.S. House lawmakers in June introducing antitrust bills that would result in major changes to the tech industry if passed. Nice for them to introduce a bill but how much hope is there this will actually become law. And even then, what about other countries?

Sysctl232 4y ago
But will it have any impact. Apple was forced to allow third party payment but crippled it with a 27% tax and other roadblocks [0]. I expect side loaded apps will have a host of restrictions making it a poor option. [0]https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/08/apple_payments_developers/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/08/apple_payments_develo...