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Why is this greyed out? If you say aliens got lonely on here people will engage you, but if you say God got lonely you get downvoted. Honestly though, these dis

by tsol 4y ago

Why is this greyed out? If you say aliens got lonely on here people will engage you, but if you say God got lonely you get downvoted. Honestly though, these discussions are talking about things past our knowledge. An intellectually honest discussion should be able to include this stuff. It reminds me of people who hate the idea that a omnipotent being created us, but are fascinated by the idea a hyperintelligent being simulated us

bsenftner 4y ago
Exactly, if we're discussing evolution why does that discussion become non-intellectual and unworthy when including the obvious endgame of evolution?
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  Evolution has no endgame, so the precise moment you assume any kind of endgame (especially an "obvious" endgame), the discussion becomes non-intellectual and unworthy. Also, if you want to discuss what God is or wants of us, pick a God and we can discuss, based on holy books and revelations, what His/Her/its intentions may be. Just saying "God" doesn't mean anything at all - there is little similarity to be found for example between YHWH, Brahman, and Amaterasu that could see a meaningful discussion.
tsimionescu 4y ago
Aliens are, by definition, hypothetical beings that are similar to us in obeying the same laws of physics. God is, by definition, a transcendental being which exists beyond the laws of physics. These two ideas are fundamentally different. In particular, speculating about what God may want (even if you believe one exists) is entirely futile, as it could want anything at all. In contrast, there are constraints on what an alien species could possibly be like - for example, we know with essentially absolute certainty that an alien species wouldn't eat quarks, whereas there is no reason to say that God wouldn't consume quarks. Now of course, depending on your particular religion, you may have some things that you believe God told you explicitly. In no major religion though is God just lonely. For example, in Christianity God created us and He only wants us to follow His laws; the notion that we could evolve to become akin to God is heretical - God is only one, and He demands worship and love, not emulation. For another example, in some versions of Hinduism, God (Brahman) encompasses everything, and we are already God - we can grow to understand this thing, but the very notion of a second God is entirely nonsensical, as God is already literally everything.
- mrkstu 4y ago
  Well, the LDS/Mormon formulation of Chrisitanity is explicitly counter to what you're stating (which probably a good portion of why Mormon's are indeed considered heretical by most Christian sects)- that humans are spirits that existed prior to the earth's existence and God is just the greatest of those spirits and he's helping us along to reach his same status. I often refer to the religion as the first sci-fi religion. From the Book of Abraham (an LDS scriptural text): 21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen. 22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. 24 And there stood aone among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; 25 And we will aprove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; 26 And they who akeep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have dglory added upon their heads for ever and ever. The founder of the religion spoke at a funeral and had this to say: The mind of man is as immortal as God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their friends and relatives are separated from their bodies for only a short season; their spirits existed coequal with God, and they now exist in a place where they converse together, the same as we do on the earth. Is it logic to say that a spirit is immortal and yet has a beginning? Because if a spirit has a beginning, it will have an end. That is good logic. I want to reason further on the spirit of man, for I am dwelling on the spirit and body of man--on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man, the immortal spirit, because it has no beginning. Suppose I cut it in two; as the Lord lives, because it has a beginning, it would have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation who say that man had a beginning prove that he must have an end. If that were so, the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house tops that God never did have power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself. Intelligence exists upon a self-existent principle; it is a spirit from age to age, and there is no creation about it. Moreover, all the spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible to enlargement. The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God found himself in the midst of spirits and glory, and because he was greater, he saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have the privilege of advancing like himself--that they might have one glory upon another and all the knowledge, power, and glory necessary to save the world of spirits. http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htm http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htm

by tsol 4y ago

bsenftner 4y ago

Exactly, if we're discussing evolution why does that discussion become non-intellectual and unworthy when including the obvious endgame of evolution?

tsimionescu 4y ago
Evolution has no endgame, so the precise moment you assume any kind of endgame (especially an "obvious" endgame), the discussion becomes non-intellectual and unworthy. Also, if you want to discuss what God is or wants of us, pick a God and we can discuss, based on holy books and revelations, what His/Her/its intentions may be. Just saying "God" doesn't mean anything at all - there is little similarity to be found for example between YHWH, Brahman, and Amaterasu that could see a meaningful discussion.

tsimionescu 4y ago

Aliens are, by definition, hypothetical beings that are similar to us in obeying the same laws of physics. God is, by definition, a transcendental being which exists beyond the laws of physics. These two ideas are fundamentally different. In particular, speculating about what God may want (even if you believe one exists) is entirely futile, as it could want anything at all. In contrast, there are constraints on what an alien species could possibly be like - for example, we know with essentially absolute certainty that an alien species wouldn't eat quarks, whereas there is no reason to say that God wouldn't consume quarks. Now of course, depending on your particular religion, you may have some things that you believe God told you explicitly. In no major religion though is God just lonely. For example, in Christianity God created us and He only wants us to follow His laws; the notion that we could evolve to become akin to God is heretical - God is only one, and He demands worship and love, not emulation. For another example, in some versions of Hinduism, God (Brahman) encompasses everything, and we are already God - we can grow to understand this thing, but the very notion of a second God is entirely nonsensical, as God is already literally everything.

mrkstu 4y ago
Well, the LDS/Mormon formulation of Chrisitanity is explicitly counter to what you're stating (which probably a good portion of why Mormon's are indeed considered heretical by most Christian sects)- that humans are spirits that existed prior to the earth's existence and God is just the greatest of those spirits and he's helping us along to reach his same status. I often refer to the religion as the first sci-fi religion. From the Book of Abraham (an LDS scriptural text): 21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen. 22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. 24 And there stood aone among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; 25 And we will aprove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; 26 And they who akeep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have dglory added upon their heads for ever and ever. The founder of the religion spoke at a funeral and had this to say: The mind of man is as immortal as God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their friends and relatives are separated from their bodies for only a short season; their spirits existed coequal with God, and they now exist in a place where they converse together, the same as we do on the earth. Is it logic to say that a spirit is immortal and yet has a beginning? Because if a spirit has a beginning, it will have an end. That is good logic. I want to reason further on the spirit of man, for I am dwelling on the spirit and body of man--on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man, the immortal spirit, because it has no beginning. Suppose I cut it in two; as the Lord lives, because it has a beginning, it would have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation who say that man had a beginning prove that he must have an end. If that were so, the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house tops that God never did have power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself. Intelligence exists upon a self-existent principle; it is a spirit from age to age, and there is no creation about it. Moreover, all the spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible to enlargement. The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God found himself in the midst of spirits and glory, and because he was greater, he saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have the privilege of advancing like himself--that they might have one glory upon another and all the knowledge, power, and glory necessary to save the world of spirits. http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htm http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htm