4 ms·

Sure, and racial discrimination is presumptively illegal. Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout to this presumption. These no presumption of legacy admi

Sure, and racial discrimination is presumptively illegal. Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout to this presumption. These no presumption of legacy admissions being illegal, however...

zozbot234 4y ago
> Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout to this presumption. Note that this is pretty much an urban legend, with little to no basis in law. "Affirmative action" when originally introduced as a standard was very clearly defined as acting to ensure that racial discrimination would not occur. Non-discrimination is, and has always been, the overall goal.
- abeyer 4y ago
  That may have been the goal, but it was never the metric that was measured.
- zugi 4y ago
  Can confirm, official guidance from the U.S. government says "equal employment opportunity is the goal, affirmative action is the tool to get there." "Affirmative action" originally meant just that it wasn't enough to say "okay, we won't discriminate" - employers had to take some active measures to ensure discrimination didn't happen, but it didn't prescribe particular measures. That sounds vaguely reasonable. But over time affirmative action warped in most peoples' minds into establishing racial preferences.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
qeternity 4y ago
> Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout Well this is likely to change. Affirmative action is zero sum: it’s impossible without discriminating against some group on the basis of a protected class.
- catlifeonmars 4y ago
  > affirmative action is zero sum Not sure that’s the definition of zero sum. Presumably it’s correcting for some existing discrimination. Maybe it over corrects, maybe it under corrects. Highly unlikely that the balance remains the same afterwards.
  - dazilcher 4y ago
    Not what GP was referring to, but discrimination is not signed. Injustice cannot be "corrected" with more discrimination, it only increases.
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    Zero sum meaning it you give one seat to a group then you have to subtract one seat from the other groups. It has nothing to do with history

Sure, and racial discrimination is presumptively illegal. Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout to this presumption. These no presumption of legacy admissions being illegal, however...

zozbot234 4y ago

> Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout to this presumption. Note that this is pretty much an urban legend, with little to no basis in law. "Affirmative action" when originally introduced as a standard was very clearly defined as acting to ensure that racial discrimination would not occur. Non-discrimination is, and has always been, the overall goal.

abeyer 4y ago
That may have been the goal, but it was never the metric that was measured.
zugi 4y ago
Can confirm, official guidance from the U.S. government says "equal employment opportunity is the goal, affirmative action is the tool to get there." "Affirmative action" originally meant just that it wasn't enough to say "okay, we won't discriminate" - employers had to take some active measures to ensure discrimination didn't happen, but it didn't prescribe particular measures. That sounds vaguely reasonable. But over time affirmative action warped in most peoples' minds into establishing racial preferences.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

qeternity 4y ago

> Affirmative action is the acceptable carveout Well this is likely to change. Affirmative action is zero sum: it’s impossible without discriminating against some group on the basis of a protected class.

catlifeonmars 4y ago
> affirmative action is zero sum Not sure that’s the definition of zero sum. Presumably it’s correcting for some existing discrimination. Maybe it over corrects, maybe it under corrects. Highly unlikely that the balance remains the same afterwards.
- dazilcher 4y ago
  Not what GP was referring to, but discrimination is not signed. Injustice cannot be "corrected" with more discrimination, it only increases.
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  Zero sum meaning it you give one seat to a group then you have to subtract one seat from the other groups. It has nothing to do with history