3 ms·

Also, your manager might not know: 1. How to manage people. Maybe this is kinda snarky, but I've meet a few that didn't know basic management principles.

by bb88 4y ago

geoduck14 4y ago
>Also, your manager might not know: >1. How to manage people. Manager here. This one hits close to home.
- bb88 4y ago
  The problem is that if your manager doesn't know how to do his/her job then some of this advice may actually be harmful, as they're viewing everything through the lens of their own inadequacies or insecurities.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    Potentially, but it may be the reverse too. It’ll make it easier for them to deal with everything.
kennend3 4y ago
Another manager here and i might be able to provide some insight into WHY you find managers who cant manage people. Most large multinationals have very rigidly defined jobs, job descriptions, point levels and compensation bands. The terminology may not be the same but the overall effects of the system are the same. Lets say you have a great tech, they are a "tech level 3", position level 100 and salary range "G". If they want to make more money they need to move to salary range "H" and need a JD that matches that salary range. So they are promoted to a manager role to keep them, and to pay them what it takes to keep them. Did they want to be managers? Are they suitable for the job? I've dealt with this scenario many times in my career. Sometimes it would be far better off for everyone of the system wasn't so rigid, and that good people could be paid to do their jobs and not be artificially promoted to management positions. It is an interesting "cobra" unintended consequences effect. The goal of the system was fairness and to manage costs. The unintended consequence is having many unqualified managers as people game the system to their advantage.
- ralph84 4y ago
  Not surprising that a pay system designed by managers pays managers more.
  - nouveaux 4y ago
    Designing comensation systems for other people is a people management tasks. How do you envision a situation where ICs are doing management tasks but not given the title and/or pay of a manager?
    - ralph84 4y ago
      Unions are the obvious example where ICs have input into the pay system design.
- Asooka 4y ago
  Maybe we should dispense with managers except at the very top and just choose a random person from the team to be acting manager for the week. If some person from the team will end up being manager anyway, choosing randomly minimises the disruption to work, since your best performer will be saddled with managerial duties only occasionally.
  - throwaway821909 4y ago
    Had a similar experience: I think regrettably if the timescale is this short, no-one knows who to talk to (from other teams/the proper managers the level above), there's some need for memory/dealing with long-running things, and so you end up with backseat driving, revisiting the same issues without decisive action taken, etc
  - kovac 4y ago
    Kind of similar, but I was thinking of replacing them with team assistants (a kin to PAs or secretaries) for teams. This is nothing but just renaming the current roles except that it takes the connotation of a manager being better, more experienced or more jiggly valued than rest of the team. Perhaps that'd work?
gregmac 4y ago
A lot of managers were well-performing ICs that got a promotion, either because a manager position needed to be filled (and they were the least bad option) or they needed to be promoted to keep them (which in some cases is the only way to give them a raise). Neither of these means they have even the basic skills to be a manager at all, let alone a good one. Unfortunately since these types of managers don't recognize good manager skills, they'll go on to promote more unqualified ICs below them into manager positions.. and the cycle repeats.
- watwut 4y ago
  These are ok. The bad ones are managers who were never good IC nor tech people. The ones who simultaneously have very little social skill. For all complaints about social skills of programmers ... have you ever tried to cooperate with manager? All the social work will be on you cause they just can't do it.
eftychis 4y ago
You lead people; you manage resources. Managers might be a good idea for a factory line; might. Managers job is again not to direct and guide people but keep the boat floating and the milking going. The mentoring etc is kindness and an extra -- if it was their job they would be called leads or mentors. When was the last time the average manager was fired/reprimanded for not mentoring and improving and leading people? They are there to make sure the river keeps flowing. Software industry is weird because you are trying to apply factory line management to computer scientists, engineers, mathematicians, ... Let's see how long this keeps going.
balderdash 4y ago
Which is not shocking considering that at many companies the skills that get you promoted from junior positions (technical ability), have nothing to do with makes you successful in a more senior/management role (managing people/selling)
bsder 4y ago
Most of us in tech got a 4 year degree in said tech. How many managers got a 4 year degree in actual management? Answer: none. Is it any wonder so many managers suck?

Also, your manager might not know: 1. How to manage people. Maybe this is kinda snarky, but I've meet a few that didn't know basic management principles.

by bb88 4y ago

Also, your manager might not know: 1. How to manage people. Maybe this is kinda snarky, but I've meet a few that didn't know basic management principles.

geoduck14 4y ago

>Also, your manager might not know: >1. How to manage people. Manager here. This one hits close to home.

bb88 4y ago
The problem is that if your manager doesn't know how to do his/her job then some of this advice may actually be harmful, as they're viewing everything through the lens of their own inadequacies or insecurities.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Potentially, but it may be the reverse too. It’ll make it easier for them to deal with everything.

kennend3 4y ago

Another manager here and i might be able to provide some insight into WHY you find managers who cant manage people. Most large multinationals have very rigidly defined jobs, job descriptions, point levels and compensation bands. The terminology may not be the same but the overall effects of the system are the same. Lets say you have a great tech, they are a "tech level 3", position level 100 and salary range "G". If they want to make more money they need to move to salary range "H" and need a JD that matches that salary range. So they are promoted to a manager role to keep them, and to pay them what it takes to keep them. Did they want to be managers? Are they suitable for the job? I've dealt with this scenario many times in my career. Sometimes it would be far better off for everyone of the system wasn't so rigid, and that good people could be paid to do their jobs and not be artificially promoted to management positions. It is an interesting "cobra" unintended consequences effect. The goal of the system was fairness and to manage costs. The unintended consequence is having many unqualified managers as people game the system to their advantage.

ralph84 4y ago
Not surprising that a pay system designed by managers pays managers more.
- nouveaux 4y ago
  Designing comensation systems for other people is a people management tasks. How do you envision a situation where ICs are doing management tasks but not given the title and/or pay of a manager?
  - ralph84 4y ago
    Unions are the obvious example where ICs have input into the pay system design.
Asooka 4y ago
Maybe we should dispense with managers except at the very top and just choose a random person from the team to be acting manager for the week. If some person from the team will end up being manager anyway, choosing randomly minimises the disruption to work, since your best performer will be saddled with managerial duties only occasionally.
- throwaway821909 4y ago
  Had a similar experience: I think regrettably if the timescale is this short, no-one knows who to talk to (from other teams/the proper managers the level above), there's some need for memory/dealing with long-running things, and so you end up with backseat driving, revisiting the same issues without decisive action taken, etc
- kovac 4y ago
  Kind of similar, but I was thinking of replacing them with team assistants (a kin to PAs or secretaries) for teams. This is nothing but just renaming the current roles except that it takes the connotation of a manager being better, more experienced or more jiggly valued than rest of the team. Perhaps that'd work?

gregmac 4y ago

A lot of managers were well-performing ICs that got a promotion, either because a manager position needed to be filled (and they were the least bad option) or they needed to be promoted to keep them (which in some cases is the only way to give them a raise). Neither of these means they have even the basic skills to be a manager at all, let alone a good one. Unfortunately since these types of managers don't recognize good manager skills, they'll go on to promote more unqualified ICs below them into manager positions.. and the cycle repeats.

watwut 4y ago
These are ok. The bad ones are managers who were never good IC nor tech people. The ones who simultaneously have very little social skill. For all complaints about social skills of programmers ... have you ever tried to cooperate with manager? All the social work will be on you cause they just can't do it.

eftychis 4y ago

You lead people; you manage resources. Managers might be a good idea for a factory line; might. Managers job is again not to direct and guide people but keep the boat floating and the milking going. The mentoring etc is kindness and an extra -- if it was their job they would be called leads or mentors. When was the last time the average manager was fired/reprimanded for not mentoring and improving and leading people? They are there to make sure the river keeps flowing. Software industry is weird because you are trying to apply factory line management to computer scientists, engineers, mathematicians, ... Let's see how long this keeps going.

balderdash 4y ago

Which is not shocking considering that at many companies the skills that get you promoted from junior positions (technical ability), have nothing to do with makes you successful in a more senior/management role (managing people/selling)

bsder 4y ago

Most of us in tech got a 4 year degree in said tech. How many managers got a 4 year degree in actual management? Answer: none. Is it any wonder so many managers suck?