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I live in SF right now. It's not even that nice... it just costs a lot, and in many ways I feel like the insane amount of love the city gets from its residents

I live in SF right now. It's not even that nice... it just costs a lot, and in many ways I feel like the insane amount of love the city gets from its residents is at least in part to feel better about paying such ridiculous living costs. I've lived in a lot of major cities in my life, and SF is the first one where I've had to literally dodge human shit while walking on the sidewalk. The weather is pretty much the only reason I don't regret moving here. Even the famously liberal population drives me up the wall sometimes - amazingly cliquey, and way smugger than even South Park portrays this place.

wyclif 15y ago
I'm a denizen of the East Coast. On every visit to SF I notice shit on the sidewalks that public services never clean up. I guess it's the vast number of homeless people and crackheads. They just pull their pants down and defecate wherever they are. I never saw that in Philly. But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. Everbody had the same idea and solution.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Talking to other people in SF about the city always strikes me as somewhat Stockholm Syndrome-y. People take pride in paying $2K for an apartment on a street where the police warns you to stay inside because two people got raped blocks apart in the same week. It's so surreal. Oh, the crime isn't so bad. Everyone knows to stay away from the west side of Dolores Park! The crackheads in the TL won't bother you unless you show fear! Haha! Another person got shanked on my block this week - if only they were as street smart as the rest of us! I deftly dodged a piece of human shit on the sidewalk on my way to work without missing a beat, how delightfully urban-sophisticate! I've never before lived in a place where violent crime, rampant substance abuse, and extreme poverty was treated in such a blase way, and often glorified as "vibrancy" and "color". The more I live here the more I feel like people here have these giant goggles on that only allows them to see the charming mini-muffins, startup parties, and great coffee.
  - jessedhillon 15y ago
    You aren't contributing anything more to the conversation. There are some high-paying jobs in Austin that you might want to check out.
    - oldstrangers 15y ago
      I thought his post was rather insightful for those of us in Austin constantly wondering if the grass is greener on the other side.
      - karmajunkie 15y ago
        As someone who's prospectively moving out to the Valley from Austin in a couple of months, I'd say its perhaps the most interesting part of this thread...
      - potatolicious 15y ago
        To be fair, it's not all bad - otherwise I would've high-tailed it out of here already. I feel that SF is a city of extremes - on the bad side, it gets really fucked up. But on the good side, there are things here that you won't find anywhere else. As impendia brings up elsewhere in the thread, there are a lot of world-class people here, in startups and otherwise. I'm a part-time photographer on the side, and I've been able to find a lot more creative, ambitious, and talented people here than anywhere else I've been. Though I wish I could get to these places/people without wading through the cesspool that is the rest of the city. SF is a city where you can attend an art show opening by incredible artists... but have to walk through crackstab-row to get there. You can learn dance from world-class instructors... but have to step over a few prone, immobile bodies lying on the sidewalk. There are unique shops you won't find anywhere else... and you'll be accosted by deranged crackheads the whole way. You can enjoy great, sunny year-round weather in the park... just watch out for the needles in the grass. It really is a city of extremes. Personally, I'm not moving out of here anytime soon - though I would wish that people stop wearing obvious problems like a badge of pride. No, it's not cool that you live on a street where people get raped all the time. No, it's not cool that you have 5 crackheads hanging out downstairs blocking your building's entrance every morning. In other cities people would see these things as problems. In SF it's "ohhhhh it's just SF! Reminds me of how lucky I am to be here!". The standard response to bringing any of these impolite topics up is either: - hur hur. You're obviously not cut out for city-living (right, because I've lived in more major cities than most people have in their lives...) - Well, I've never seen any of this! (unless you stay in the very furthest reaches of the Richmond or Outer Sunset, yes, yes you have).
- matwood 15y ago
  But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. That and a place with good public transportation. Portland has a huge homeless problem because it has free public transportation within city limits. Many homeless people just ride the trains around all day.
- fooooobar 15y ago
  > I never saw that in Philly. I definitely have. :|
- balloot 15y ago
  Anyone who raves about the great weather in SF is clearly not qualified to give judgment on the city.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    Anyone who thinks that SF doesn't have great weather, compared to the rest of the country, has clearly been in California so long they've lost touch with reality. Do you really want to compare SF weather with Seattle, Portland, Chicago, New York, Boston, etc?
    - tedunangst 15y ago
      I like wearing shorts. At night. The fact that I can do this, at least some parts of the year, in New York, makes it a great city. In New York, I never once left the house wearing a tshirt, walked a neighborhood over, spent a few hours at a friend's, and then nearly died of hypothermia walking home. The fact that residents of SF have to check the weather every two hours and every time they cross into a new zip code is, imo, a fatal flaw. Yeah, it's often nice, but never nice enough for long enough (48 hours of reliable 70+ temperatures). Now, a few miles down the peninsula, things get more interesting...
moocow01 15y ago
Worked for 4 years in SF and left a couple years ago for another job... the whole time I was there I felt like I was seeing a different city than everyone else. For the most part I found it dirty, unfriendly, cold and way overpriced. There are some nice attractions and scenery but the day to day experience drove me nuts after a while. I also got tired of seeing my earnings slowly eaten up by all miscellaneous costs that go along with city living - paying for a parking spot, bridge tolls, extra taxes, etc. will not be missed
impendia 15y ago
I lived in San Francisco for two years, and moved away to a much smaller place when my (temporary) job ran out. SF isn't for everyone, but I absolutely loved it. I went to weekly swing dances attended by 200+ people, joined meditation circles, took yoga classes from the best instructors in the world, took comedy lessons from the studio that pioneered long-form improv, ... the list goes on and on. SF has a huge concentration of high-energy, motivated, ambitious, creative people, and if I had the option I would move back there in a heartbeat, high real estate prices and all. Everyone's tastes are different, I don't mean to criticize you one bit, but there are a lot of things to seriously love about San Francisco, and people who love these things push the rents up.
jcnnghm 15y ago
I travel all around the United States, moving every three to six weeks, and I completely agree with your assessment of San Francisco, having just spent a month living there. San Francisco is actually kind of disgusting. It is one of the dirtiest cities in the United States and there are literally-crazy homeless people on every corner. In many ways, it is dirtier than Manhattan; it makes Boston look sterile. There is human excrement everywhere, and serious crime issues. I passed a fountain that was effectively aerosolizing human shit (the homeless were pooping in it), which smelled about how you may imagine. It is not uncommon to walk through a cloud of pot smoke then to be hit in the face with the foul stench of waste; the mixture is revolting. The locals are also out of touch with reality. They compare Market St. to the Champs-Élysées in Paris which only seems to demonstrate that they've never been to Paris. There are idiotic cancer warnings on everything; hotels, gas stations, parking garages, Starbucks, shopping centers, health clubs, and french fry boxes. There are Idiocracy warning alarms at the exit to every parking garage, presumably to prevent the deaths of the vast number of people that are killed every year by cars exiting parking garages. There is a tax on toasted subs. Idiotic protesters were allowed to block Market St., halting street cars, rerouting buses, disrupting commutes, and closing the MUNI station while blathering about how it was there first amendment right to do so (it's not). In short, the place is backward. There seems to be such a political desire to tackle huge societal issues and minor non-issues that the city has failed to master the very basics, and is unable to even manage human waste.
- Aqua_Geek 15y ago
  It's refreshing to hear others who share the same views of SF. I was beginning to think that I was just missing something. > There are idiotic cancer warnings on everything; hotels, gas stations, parking garages, Starbucks, shopping centers, health clubs, and french fry boxes. I think this is a State of CA thing, not a City of SF thing.
  - rphlx 15y ago
    Per rent dollar, some parts of LA like the UCLA area, South Pas, Santa Monica, Malibu, etc, seem much nicer than SF. The poor/middle-class parts of LA like the SFV are obviously in bad shape.
barclay 15y ago
> The weather is pretty much the only reason I don't regret moving here You nailed it: we're paying for the weather. It's December 11th, and we're still able to be outside. Yesterday I did a 80k bike ride and it was perfect out. Even at it's worst (Feb) it's still quite tolerable. Every time I think about moving to the east coast, I remember the ice and snow of the winters, and am quite happy to stay here. Also, we're geographically ideal. Want to get into the hills? take a drive down 1 or skyline, and it's gorgeous. We have ocean access. Napa and Sonoma are an hour north. Skiing and the mountains are only a couple hours east. It's far more than just san fransico proper.
cobralibre 15y ago
I've lived in a lot of major cities in my life, and SF is the first one where I've had to literally dodge human shit while walking on the sidewalk. As a longtime Austin resident, I'd almost consider that a nice problem to have, because it would mean that walking was an integrated part of my daily routine rather than something I have to explicitly make time for so that I don't lose my mind from all the driving I have to do.
- overgryphon 15y ago
  What part of Austin are you living in? There is great public transit here, and the city is very pedestrian and biker friendly. I know many many people who don't own cars in Austin. If you're driving everywhere all the time, perhaps that is a lifestyle choice you made.
  - natrius 15y ago
    I definitely wouldn't call Austin's public transportation "great," nor would I call a significant portion of the city "pedestrian friendly." I don't own a car and get around by bike, bus and car2go, but the desire to do so drastically limited my housing and employment choices. http://www.walkscore.com/TX/Austin http://www.walkscore.com/TX/Austin From experience, anything that isn't green on that map isn't anywhere near walkable, and only Guadalupe and South Congress have transit worth riding. 20-30 minute headways are the norm on other routes, and only transit devotees will put up with that, like I did when I lived on Burnet. You are very correct that transportation is a lifestyle choice, but Austin doesn't make driving rarely an easy choice.
  - cobralibre 15y ago
    It would be neat if we could do this without requiring me to provide my public transit bona fides. I live in Central Austin, where the public transit, pedestrian, and cycling infrastructure is about as good as it gets in Austin. And I would argue that it's pretty meager compared to many major cities – such as San Francisco, which is what we were talking about. And since we're also talking about working for software companies, I would also like to posit – and I could certainly be wrong about this – that the majority of local software companies are not located centrally, where they are readily accessible via bus, rail, or bike. And once you're out of Central Austin, you're in a city that's built to car scale, not human scale.

wyclif 15y ago

I'm a denizen of the East Coast. On every visit to SF I notice shit on the sidewalks that public services never clean up. I guess it's the vast number of homeless people and crackheads. They just pull their pants down and defecate wherever they are. I never saw that in Philly. But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. Everbody had the same idea and solution.

potatolicious 15y ago
Talking to other people in SF about the city always strikes me as somewhat Stockholm Syndrome-y. People take pride in paying $2K for an apartment on a street where the police warns you to stay inside because two people got raped blocks apart in the same week. It's so surreal. Oh, the crime isn't so bad. Everyone knows to stay away from the west side of Dolores Park! The crackheads in the TL won't bother you unless you show fear! Haha! Another person got shanked on my block this week - if only they were as street smart as the rest of us! I deftly dodged a piece of human shit on the sidewalk on my way to work without missing a beat, how delightfully urban-sophisticate! I've never before lived in a place where violent crime, rampant substance abuse, and extreme poverty was treated in such a blase way, and often glorified as "vibrancy" and "color". The more I live here the more I feel like people here have these giant goggles on that only allows them to see the charming mini-muffins, startup parties, and great coffee.
- jessedhillon 15y ago
  You aren't contributing anything more to the conversation. There are some high-paying jobs in Austin that you might want to check out.
  - oldstrangers 15y ago
    I thought his post was rather insightful for those of us in Austin constantly wondering if the grass is greener on the other side.
    - karmajunkie 15y ago
      As someone who's prospectively moving out to the Valley from Austin in a couple of months, I'd say its perhaps the most interesting part of this thread...
    - potatolicious 15y ago
      To be fair, it's not all bad - otherwise I would've high-tailed it out of here already. I feel that SF is a city of extremes - on the bad side, it gets really fucked up. But on the good side, there are things here that you won't find anywhere else. As impendia brings up elsewhere in the thread, there are a lot of world-class people here, in startups and otherwise. I'm a part-time photographer on the side, and I've been able to find a lot more creative, ambitious, and talented people here than anywhere else I've been. Though I wish I could get to these places/people without wading through the cesspool that is the rest of the city. SF is a city where you can attend an art show opening by incredible artists... but have to walk through crackstab-row to get there. You can learn dance from world-class instructors... but have to step over a few prone, immobile bodies lying on the sidewalk. There are unique shops you won't find anywhere else... and you'll be accosted by deranged crackheads the whole way. You can enjoy great, sunny year-round weather in the park... just watch out for the needles in the grass. It really is a city of extremes. Personally, I'm not moving out of here anytime soon - though I would wish that people stop wearing obvious problems like a badge of pride. No, it's not cool that you live on a street where people get raped all the time. No, it's not cool that you have 5 crackheads hanging out downstairs blocking your building's entrance every morning. In other cities people would see these things as problems. In SF it's "ohhhhh it's just SF! Reminds me of how lucky I am to be here!". The standard response to bringing any of these impolite topics up is either: - hur hur. You're obviously not cut out for city-living (right, because I've lived in more major cities than most people have in their lives...) - Well, I've never seen any of this! (unless you stay in the very furthest reaches of the Richmond or Outer Sunset, yes, yes you have).
matwood 15y ago
But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. That and a place with good public transportation. Portland has a huge homeless problem because it has free public transportation within city limits. Many homeless people just ride the trains around all day.
fooooobar 15y ago
> I never saw that in Philly. I definitely have. :|
balloot 15y ago
Anyone who raves about the great weather in SF is clearly not qualified to give judgment on the city.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Anyone who thinks that SF doesn't have great weather, compared to the rest of the country, has clearly been in California so long they've lost touch with reality. Do you really want to compare SF weather with Seattle, Portland, Chicago, New York, Boston, etc?
  - tedunangst 15y ago
    I like wearing shorts. At night. The fact that I can do this, at least some parts of the year, in New York, makes it a great city. In New York, I never once left the house wearing a tshirt, walked a neighborhood over, spent a few hours at a friend's, and then nearly died of hypothermia walking home. The fact that residents of SF have to check the weather every two hours and every time they cross into a new zip code is, imo, a fatal flaw. Yeah, it's often nice, but never nice enough for long enough (48 hours of reliable 70+ temperatures). Now, a few miles down the peninsula, things get more interesting...

moocow01 15y ago

Worked for 4 years in SF and left a couple years ago for another job... the whole time I was there I felt like I was seeing a different city than everyone else. For the most part I found it dirty, unfriendly, cold and way overpriced. There are some nice attractions and scenery but the day to day experience drove me nuts after a while. I also got tired of seeing my earnings slowly eaten up by all miscellaneous costs that go along with city living - paying for a parking spot, bridge tolls, extra taxes, etc. will not be missed

impendia 15y ago

I lived in San Francisco for two years, and moved away to a much smaller place when my (temporary) job ran out. SF isn't for everyone, but I absolutely loved it. I went to weekly swing dances attended by 200+ people, joined meditation circles, took yoga classes from the best instructors in the world, took comedy lessons from the studio that pioneered long-form improv, ... the list goes on and on. SF has a huge concentration of high-energy, motivated, ambitious, creative people, and if I had the option I would move back there in a heartbeat, high real estate prices and all. Everyone's tastes are different, I don't mean to criticize you one bit, but there are a lot of things to seriously love about San Francisco, and people who love these things push the rents up.

jcnnghm 15y ago

I travel all around the United States, moving every three to six weeks, and I completely agree with your assessment of San Francisco, having just spent a month living there. San Francisco is actually kind of disgusting. It is one of the dirtiest cities in the United States and there are literally-crazy homeless people on every corner. In many ways, it is dirtier than Manhattan; it makes Boston look sterile. There is human excrement everywhere, and serious crime issues. I passed a fountain that was effectively aerosolizing human shit (the homeless were pooping in it), which smelled about how you may imagine. It is not uncommon to walk through a cloud of pot smoke then to be hit in the face with the foul stench of waste; the mixture is revolting. The locals are also out of touch with reality. They compare Market St. to the Champs-Élysées in Paris which only seems to demonstrate that they've never been to Paris. There are idiotic cancer warnings on everything; hotels, gas stations, parking garages, Starbucks, shopping centers, health clubs, and french fry boxes. There are Idiocracy warning alarms at the exit to every parking garage, presumably to prevent the deaths of the vast number of people that are killed every year by cars exiting parking garages. There is a tax on toasted subs. Idiotic protesters were allowed to block Market St., halting street cars, rerouting buses, disrupting commutes, and closing the MUNI station while blathering about how it was there first amendment right to do so (it's not). In short, the place is backward. There seems to be such a political desire to tackle huge societal issues and minor non-issues that the city has failed to master the very basics, and is unable to even manage human waste.

Aqua_Geek 15y ago
It's refreshing to hear others who share the same views of SF. I was beginning to think that I was just missing something. > There are idiotic cancer warnings on everything; hotels, gas stations, parking garages, Starbucks, shopping centers, health clubs, and french fry boxes. I think this is a State of CA thing, not a City of SF thing.
- rphlx 15y ago
  Per rent dollar, some parts of LA like the UCLA area, South Pas, Santa Monica, Malibu, etc, seem much nicer than SF. The poor/middle-class parts of LA like the SFV are obviously in bad shape.

barclay 15y ago

> The weather is pretty much the only reason I don't regret moving here You nailed it: we're paying for the weather. It's December 11th, and we're still able to be outside. Yesterday I did a 80k bike ride and it was perfect out. Even at it's worst (Feb) it's still quite tolerable. Every time I think about moving to the east coast, I remember the ice and snow of the winters, and am quite happy to stay here. Also, we're geographically ideal. Want to get into the hills? take a drive down 1 or skyline, and it's gorgeous. We have ocean access. Napa and Sonoma are an hour north. Skiing and the mountains are only a couple hours east. It's far more than just san fransico proper.

cobralibre 15y ago

I've lived in a lot of major cities in my life, and SF is the first one where I've had to literally dodge human shit while walking on the sidewalk. As a longtime Austin resident, I'd almost consider that a nice problem to have, because it would mean that walking was an integrated part of my daily routine rather than something I have to explicitly make time for so that I don't lose my mind from all the driving I have to do.

overgryphon 15y ago
What part of Austin are you living in? There is great public transit here, and the city is very pedestrian and biker friendly. I know many many people who don't own cars in Austin. If you're driving everywhere all the time, perhaps that is a lifestyle choice you made.
- natrius 15y ago
  I definitely wouldn't call Austin's public transportation "great," nor would I call a significant portion of the city "pedestrian friendly." I don't own a car and get around by bike, bus and car2go, but the desire to do so drastically limited my housing and employment choices. http://www.walkscore.com/TX/Austin http://www.walkscore.com/TX/Austin From experience, anything that isn't green on that map isn't anywhere near walkable, and only Guadalupe and South Congress have transit worth riding. 20-30 minute headways are the norm on other routes, and only transit devotees will put up with that, like I did when I lived on Burnet. You are very correct that transportation is a lifestyle choice, but Austin doesn't make driving rarely an easy choice.
- cobralibre 15y ago
  It would be neat if we could do this without requiring me to provide my public transit bona fides. I live in Central Austin, where the public transit, pedestrian, and cycling infrastructure is about as good as it gets in Austin. And I would argue that it's pretty meager compared to many major cities – such as San Francisco, which is what we were talking about. And since we're also talking about working for software companies, I would also like to posit – and I could certainly be wrong about this – that the majority of local software companies are not located centrally, where they are readily accessible via bus, rail, or bike. And once you're out of Central Austin, you're in a city that's built to car scale, not human scale.