8 ms·

But you get to live in San Francisco rather than Wisconsin or New Jersey. It might not matter to some people, but I have almost zero desire to live long-term an

But you get to live in San Francisco rather than Wisconsin or New Jersey. It might not matter to some people, but I have almost zero desire to live long-term anywhere other than San Diego, LA, or San Francisco. There are enough people who feel the same way that I do, and so employees can pay a bit less.

baddox 15y ago
Are you suggesting that the niceness of the city somehow acts as a benefit so that the employer doesn't have to pay as much?
- teaspoon 15y ago
  All else equal, yes. More demand means a higher price -- i.e., less compensation for the same talent.
- andycroll 15y ago
  I'd definitely concur with that statement. Location and living environment are definitely a factor in deciding to take a job somewhere else than where you are now. Whether SF is 'nicer' than somewhere else is down to the individual's preferences. Who hasn't said "That job looks interesting but the office location is a pain in the ass and will add 30 minutes each way to my commute"?
- orangecat 15y ago
  Sort of, see "Expensive Urban Real Estate Is a Consumption Choice": http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/expensive-urban-real-estate-is-a-consumption-choice/247937/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/expensiv... If coming to New York meant that you had to put four people in a three bedroom apartment that's uncomfortably far from a subway line, instead of buying a nice little condo in Omaha, this does not mean that you are not "really" better off than your counterpart in Omaha; it means that you have chosen to consume your extra wealth in the form of "living in New York" rather than in the form of spacious real estate, cheap groceries, and an easy commute.
  - JoeAltmaier 15y ago
    ...and a job. At some point, the crowd creates the job market creates the crowd...and it snowballs. Our preferences stopped mattering a long time ago.
- SonicSoul 15y ago
  of course. it's much easier to get good talent in cities that are desirable to live in, even though the cost of living is 2x higher than bumble-fuck places. i know because i moved to a bumble-fuck place for a high salary, and a. i hate living here, and b. we interview a lot of people, and it is surprising how hard it is to find anyone even mid-level.. the only lucky breaks we get is if some sr developer happened to move to bumble-fuck because he got married and is raising a family there.
- balloot 15y ago
  Absolutely. I am an experienced software engineer in SF, and you would have to pay me WAY more money to live in Texas. The number is high enough that I would never realistically move there.
  - baddox 15y ago
    Hmm. Do you have family that you're reluctant to uproot, or do you really just like SF that much? I like SF, it's the best place I've ever lived, but I guess I don't get too attached to cities.
potatolicious 15y ago
I live in SF right now. It's not even that nice... it just costs a lot, and in many ways I feel like the insane amount of love the city gets from its residents is at least in part to feel better about paying such ridiculous living costs. I've lived in a lot of major cities in my life, and SF is the first one where I've had to literally dodge human shit while walking on the sidewalk. The weather is pretty much the only reason I don't regret moving here. Even the famously liberal population drives me up the wall sometimes - amazingly cliquey, and way smugger than even South Park portrays this place.
- wyclif 15y ago
  I'm a denizen of the East Coast. On every visit to SF I notice shit on the sidewalks that public services never clean up. I guess it's the vast number of homeless people and crackheads. They just pull their pants down and defecate wherever they are. I never saw that in Philly. But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. Everbody had the same idea and solution.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    Talking to other people in SF about the city always strikes me as somewhat Stockholm Syndrome-y. People take pride in paying $2K for an apartment on a street where the police warns you to stay inside because two people got raped blocks apart in the same week. It's so surreal. Oh, the crime isn't so bad. Everyone knows to stay away from the west side of Dolores Park! The crackheads in the TL won't bother you unless you show fear! Haha! Another person got shanked on my block this week - if only they were as street smart as the rest of us! I deftly dodged a piece of human shit on the sidewalk on my way to work without missing a beat, how delightfully urban-sophisticate! I've never before lived in a place where violent crime, rampant substance abuse, and extreme poverty was treated in such a blase way, and often glorified as "vibrancy" and "color". The more I live here the more I feel like people here have these giant goggles on that only allows them to see the charming mini-muffins, startup parties, and great coffee.
    - 15y ago

baddox 15y ago

Are you suggesting that the niceness of the city somehow acts as a benefit so that the employer doesn't have to pay as much?

teaspoon 15y ago
All else equal, yes. More demand means a higher price -- i.e., less compensation for the same talent.
andycroll 15y ago
I'd definitely concur with that statement. Location and living environment are definitely a factor in deciding to take a job somewhere else than where you are now. Whether SF is 'nicer' than somewhere else is down to the individual's preferences. Who hasn't said "That job looks interesting but the office location is a pain in the ass and will add 30 minutes each way to my commute"?
orangecat 15y ago
Sort of, see "Expensive Urban Real Estate Is a Consumption Choice": http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/expensive-urban-real-estate-is-a-consumption-choice/247937/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/expensiv... If coming to New York meant that you had to put four people in a three bedroom apartment that's uncomfortably far from a subway line, instead of buying a nice little condo in Omaha, this does not mean that you are not "really" better off than your counterpart in Omaha; it means that you have chosen to consume your extra wealth in the form of "living in New York" rather than in the form of spacious real estate, cheap groceries, and an easy commute.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  ...and a job. At some point, the crowd creates the job market creates the crowd...and it snowballs. Our preferences stopped mattering a long time ago.
SonicSoul 15y ago
of course. it's much easier to get good talent in cities that are desirable to live in, even though the cost of living is 2x higher than bumble-fuck places. i know because i moved to a bumble-fuck place for a high salary, and a. i hate living here, and b. we interview a lot of people, and it is surprising how hard it is to find anyone even mid-level.. the only lucky breaks we get is if some sr developer happened to move to bumble-fuck because he got married and is raising a family there.
balloot 15y ago
Absolutely. I am an experienced software engineer in SF, and you would have to pay me WAY more money to live in Texas. The number is high enough that I would never realistically move there.
- baddox 15y ago
  Hmm. Do you have family that you're reluctant to uproot, or do you really just like SF that much? I like SF, it's the best place I've ever lived, but I guess I don't get too attached to cities.

potatolicious 15y ago

I live in SF right now. It's not even that nice... it just costs a lot, and in many ways I feel like the insane amount of love the city gets from its residents is at least in part to feel better about paying such ridiculous living costs. I've lived in a lot of major cities in my life, and SF is the first one where I've had to literally dodge human shit while walking on the sidewalk. The weather is pretty much the only reason I don't regret moving here. Even the famously liberal population drives me up the wall sometimes - amazingly cliquey, and way smugger than even South Park portrays this place.

wyclif 15y ago
I'm a denizen of the East Coast. On every visit to SF I notice shit on the sidewalks that public services never clean up. I guess it's the vast number of homeless people and crackheads. They just pull their pants down and defecate wherever they are. I never saw that in Philly. But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. Everbody had the same idea and solution.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Talking to other people in SF about the city always strikes me as somewhat Stockholm Syndrome-y. People take pride in paying $2K for an apartment on a street where the police warns you to stay inside because two people got raped blocks apart in the same week. It's so surreal. Oh, the crime isn't so bad. Everyone knows to stay away from the west side of Dolores Park! The crackheads in the TL won't bother you unless you show fear! Haha! Another person got shanked on my block this week - if only they were as street smart as the rest of us! I deftly dodged a piece of human shit on the sidewalk on my way to work without missing a beat, how delightfully urban-sophisticate! I've never before lived in a place where violent crime, rampant substance abuse, and extreme poverty was treated in such a blase way, and often glorified as "vibrancy" and "color". The more I live here the more I feel like people here have these giant goggles on that only allows them to see the charming mini-muffins, startup parties, and great coffee.
  - 15y ago