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I went in assuming that this was going to be a hit piece. It's not quite that bad, but there's elements like that. I have no idea who this "former Tesla enginee

by ufmace 4y ago

I went in assuming that this was going to be a hit piece. It's not quite that bad, but there's elements like that. I have no idea who this "former Tesla engineer" is or what their biases and motivations are, or how the article authors found them. It seems perfectly reasonable for Elon to bring in some people he knows he can trust to help evaluate how Twitter actually works. I presume he's competent enough to do any necessary i-dotting and t-crossing to make it legal. I don't see anything wrong with printing out code either - IMO sometimes it's a handy way to be able to explore lots of code with complex interactions, since you can have a bunch of pages at once and arrange them however you like. It's pretty clear to me that there are elements of the elite media-political complex that are terrified of Elon purchasing Twitter because he's not part of their crowd and they won't be able to control him and through him what is and isn't allowed on Twitter. IMO all articles about this should be read with that in mind.

SanjayMehta 4y ago
zzzeek 4y ago
> It's pretty clear to me that there are elements of the elite media-political complex that are terrified of Elon purchasing Twitter because he's not part of their crowd and they won't be able to control him and through him what is and isn't allowed on Twitter. IMO all articles about this should be read with that in mind. It's pretty clear there are elements of the Hacker News community who are obsessed with "cancel culture" and think Elon is some kind of billionaire, infallible savior who will "stick it" to all those terrible wokes who are ruining the tech industry as the protected bro-space it's been for decades. IMO all hacker news comments should be read with this in mind.
- cowtools 4y ago
  your strawman is that having a generally pro-elon disposition = thinking elon is some kind of infallible savior The reality is that the current moderation of major forums like Twitter, HN, etc is so one-sided that it produces whatever passive-aggressive posturing that we are engaged in with this very conversation. I am not going to make a defense of elon or his actions, but I will say that I believe there are two good outcomes: * Elon behaves rationally and makes twitter usable for civil discussion. * Elon behaves irrationally and destroys twitter, creating space for competitors like mastodon, etc. If you agree with this premise, then it should be clear that most any change elon makes to twitter is beneficial in the long run, good or bad. This is why I am not so quick to criticize.
  - zzzeek 4y ago
    > thinking elon is some kind of infallible savior oh that's based on my observation of comments whenever he comes up, like this one here right on this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33389206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33389206
    - hnfong 4y ago
      That was a logical counter argument against the claim that Elon Musk was surrounded by yes-men. From the context it seems very unlikely that the post you referred to literally thought Elon Musk is always right.
- ufmace 4y ago
  If "cancel culture" is no big deal, then why is everybody so terrified of Elon taking over Twitter? What is so bad about this that you feel the need to make weak-man arguments accusing everybody who is moderately pro-Elon of being a mindless shill?
  - zzzeek 4y ago
    Elon taking over Twitter given his promises to dismantle what meager content moderation policies it has, means it becomes a more amplified platform for political misinformation and hate speech, further radicalizing large portions of the population to partake in even more violent acts, such as the recent assassination attempt on the speaker of the house, armed vigilantes stalking voting locations as we have seen in Arizona looking for supposed "mules", things like that. Lax content and moderation policies will enhance the platform's capability to be used as a tool for online stalking, harassment, death threats, etc. so that non-right-wing voices will probably need to abandon the platform ( a "cancel culture" of sorts indeed, where people who don't silence themselves will be in danger of being literally cancelled). Beyond that, there is then his massive conflicts of interest and his personal political opinions such as those involving Ukraine, which he would be able to amplify in the same way as any nation-state seeks to spread propaganda regarding their political agendas. The Pentagon literally had to negotiate with him, as though he were his own nation state, regarding his maintanance of the Starlink system that Ukraine depends upon in their current war with Russia. If Musk is essentially rich and powerful enough to be treated as a diplomatic entity, it's pretty scary he'd have full privatized control over the most influential social network in history, not any less frightening than if Twitter were a state controlled entity by the US government, the Saudi government, etc.
    - skellington 4y ago
      Yes, you have been carefully programmed to regurgitate the state's position on free speech and congratulations for doing a good job of repeating the correct party speaking points! Do you mean the violent political act from a GREEN PARTY registered crazy person? Were you this concerned about political violence in 2017 when a liberal shot and wounded 5 people at a Republican baseball game in Virginia? Do you mean the Pentagon had to pay for his critical service instead of assuming it was a free service while they pay Lockheed, Ratheon, etc.. billions of dollars for their boom-boom machines? Do you think the Pentagon does not negotiate with Lockheed and those F35s are free? Are you talking about the war in Ukraine that is at least partially the fault of NATO and the US involvement in that region? Are you another blood thirsty neo-liberal who desires that NATO defeats Russia and is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian? You're especially concerned about map borders in Eastern Europe while simultaneously hating borders in North America? Sounds like you have it all figured out.
- dagmx 4y ago
  Elon appeals to technocrat libertarians. His combination of technology and capitalism while cutting out all human elements is everything that demographic wants. It’s devoid of empathy and of the understanding of complex human interactions , or understanding other demographics. It’s also one of the prime group that come to this site. Technology as an answer to all of societies needs and trying to make a buck off of it at the same time.
  - SanjayMehta 4y ago
    If Musk was completely devoid of empathy, he wouldn't have spent so much money on Starlink services for Ukraine.
    - dagmx 4y ago
      The same Ukraine that he then said should cede their land to an aggressor ? the same Ukraine that he overcharged for services and then tried to pull out of? It’s much easier to see it as a cheap investment in optics for future contracts than any form of empathy when you look at the full picture and not just singular events on the timeline. That’s not to say that it wasn’t also philanthropic. The two aren’t mutually exclusive but I don’t buy that he feels empathy for the people of Ukraine. I once read that you can understand the duality of Elon by his desire to have a legacy of his own, and I think it very much applies here, and to the Thai cave rescue that he derided for not being the saviour and the supposed ventilators he claimed they donated for Covid and didn’t actually do.
- zo1 4y ago
  Coming from someone in the camp you rail against, and judging by the ups and down votes I've done in this thread, I'd say it's 50-50. But judging by how many grey and downvoted posts I've seen that I agree with or think are reasonable comments, I'd say it's much more skewed and one sided.
megablast 4y ago
> legal. I don't see anything wrong with printing out code either So dumb. Do I print out the few lines I changed, or the entire file?? Do I mark what I changed?? So dumb.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Cyph0n 4y ago
> It seems perfectly reasonable for Elon to bring in some people he knows he can trust to help evaluate how Twitter actually works. But the first step wouldn’t be looking at code. With a system this complex, you’d never make meaningful progress with a bottom-up approach. > I don't see anything wrong with printing out code either Firstly, this isn’t a competitive programming contest. It is trivial and much more effective to use a code browsing tool. There is no universe where printing code would be the right decision. Secondly, how does asking engineers to print their “recent code” help with understanding how Twitter works?
xeromal 4y ago
Using Tesla engineers to review code is a pretty solid idea considering he can trust them. Musk companies like to run lean so I'm sure this initial review is to find people who are "coasting" and trim them. I'll say that I'm one of those coasters though not for twitter. I live my life and happen to write software for work. I don't think it's wrong for companies to run either as a coasting company or as a lean startup as long as they don't break any laws. I'm curious to see what comes out of twitter. I honestly don't see how Elon can make his money back. lol

by ufmace 4y ago

SanjayMehta 4y ago

zzzeek 4y ago

> It's pretty clear to me that there are elements of the elite media-political complex that are terrified of Elon purchasing Twitter because he's not part of their crowd and they won't be able to control him and through him what is and isn't allowed on Twitter. IMO all articles about this should be read with that in mind. It's pretty clear there are elements of the Hacker News community who are obsessed with "cancel culture" and think Elon is some kind of billionaire, infallible savior who will "stick it" to all those terrible wokes who are ruining the tech industry as the protected bro-space it's been for decades. IMO all hacker news comments should be read with this in mind.

cowtools 4y ago
your strawman is that having a generally pro-elon disposition = thinking elon is some kind of infallible savior The reality is that the current moderation of major forums like Twitter, HN, etc is so one-sided that it produces whatever passive-aggressive posturing that we are engaged in with this very conversation. I am not going to make a defense of elon or his actions, but I will say that I believe there are two good outcomes: * Elon behaves rationally and makes twitter usable for civil discussion. * Elon behaves irrationally and destroys twitter, creating space for competitors like mastodon, etc. If you agree with this premise, then it should be clear that most any change elon makes to twitter is beneficial in the long run, good or bad. This is why I am not so quick to criticize.
- zzzeek 4y ago
  > thinking elon is some kind of infallible savior oh that's based on my observation of comments whenever he comes up, like this one here right on this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33389206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33389206
  - hnfong 4y ago
    That was a logical counter argument against the claim that Elon Musk was surrounded by yes-men. From the context it seems very unlikely that the post you referred to literally thought Elon Musk is always right.
ufmace 4y ago
If "cancel culture" is no big deal, then why is everybody so terrified of Elon taking over Twitter? What is so bad about this that you feel the need to make weak-man arguments accusing everybody who is moderately pro-Elon of being a mindless shill?
- zzzeek 4y ago
  Elon taking over Twitter given his promises to dismantle what meager content moderation policies it has, means it becomes a more amplified platform for political misinformation and hate speech, further radicalizing large portions of the population to partake in even more violent acts, such as the recent assassination attempt on the speaker of the house, armed vigilantes stalking voting locations as we have seen in Arizona looking for supposed "mules", things like that. Lax content and moderation policies will enhance the platform's capability to be used as a tool for online stalking, harassment, death threats, etc. so that non-right-wing voices will probably need to abandon the platform ( a "cancel culture" of sorts indeed, where people who don't silence themselves will be in danger of being literally cancelled). Beyond that, there is then his massive conflicts of interest and his personal political opinions such as those involving Ukraine, which he would be able to amplify in the same way as any nation-state seeks to spread propaganda regarding their political agendas. The Pentagon literally had to negotiate with him, as though he were his own nation state, regarding his maintanance of the Starlink system that Ukraine depends upon in their current war with Russia. If Musk is essentially rich and powerful enough to be treated as a diplomatic entity, it's pretty scary he'd have full privatized control over the most influential social network in history, not any less frightening than if Twitter were a state controlled entity by the US government, the Saudi government, etc.
  - skellington 4y ago
    Yes, you have been carefully programmed to regurgitate the state's position on free speech and congratulations for doing a good job of repeating the correct party speaking points! Do you mean the violent political act from a GREEN PARTY registered crazy person? Were you this concerned about political violence in 2017 when a liberal shot and wounded 5 people at a Republican baseball game in Virginia? Do you mean the Pentagon had to pay for his critical service instead of assuming it was a free service while they pay Lockheed, Ratheon, etc.. billions of dollars for their boom-boom machines? Do you think the Pentagon does not negotiate with Lockheed and those F35s are free? Are you talking about the war in Ukraine that is at least partially the fault of NATO and the US involvement in that region? Are you another blood thirsty neo-liberal who desires that NATO defeats Russia and is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian? You're especially concerned about map borders in Eastern Europe while simultaneously hating borders in North America? Sounds like you have it all figured out.
dagmx 4y ago
Elon appeals to technocrat libertarians. His combination of technology and capitalism while cutting out all human elements is everything that demographic wants. It’s devoid of empathy and of the understanding of complex human interactions , or understanding other demographics. It’s also one of the prime group that come to this site. Technology as an answer to all of societies needs and trying to make a buck off of it at the same time.
- SanjayMehta 4y ago
  If Musk was completely devoid of empathy, he wouldn't have spent so much money on Starlink services for Ukraine.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    The same Ukraine that he then said should cede their land to an aggressor ? the same Ukraine that he overcharged for services and then tried to pull out of? It’s much easier to see it as a cheap investment in optics for future contracts than any form of empathy when you look at the full picture and not just singular events on the timeline. That’s not to say that it wasn’t also philanthropic. The two aren’t mutually exclusive but I don’t buy that he feels empathy for the people of Ukraine. I once read that you can understand the duality of Elon by his desire to have a legacy of his own, and I think it very much applies here, and to the Thai cave rescue that he derided for not being the saviour and the supposed ventilators he claimed they donated for Covid and didn’t actually do.
zo1 4y ago
Coming from someone in the camp you rail against, and judging by the ups and down votes I've done in this thread, I'd say it's 50-50. But judging by how many grey and downvoted posts I've seen that I agree with or think are reasonable comments, I'd say it's much more skewed and one sided.

megablast 4y ago

> legal. I don't see anything wrong with printing out code either So dumb. Do I print out the few lines I changed, or the entire file?? Do I mark what I changed?? So dumb.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Cyph0n 4y ago

> It seems perfectly reasonable for Elon to bring in some people he knows he can trust to help evaluate how Twitter actually works. But the first step wouldn’t be looking at code. With a system this complex, you’d never make meaningful progress with a bottom-up approach. > I don't see anything wrong with printing out code either Firstly, this isn’t a competitive programming contest. It is trivial and much more effective to use a code browsing tool. There is no universe where printing code would be the right decision. Secondly, how does asking engineers to print their “recent code” help with understanding how Twitter works?

xeromal 4y ago

Using Tesla engineers to review code is a pretty solid idea considering he can trust them. Musk companies like to run lean so I'm sure this initial review is to find people who are "coasting" and trim them. I'll say that I'm one of those coasters though not for twitter. I live my life and happen to write software for work. I don't think it's wrong for companies to run either as a coasting company or as a lean startup as long as they don't break any laws. I'm curious to see what comes out of twitter. I honestly don't see how Elon can make his money back. lol