4 ms·

> Elon doesn't actually believe in a free marketplace of ideas, Is he banning left wing accounts? Is there any evidence of what you say?

socialismisok 4y ago
Will he unban ISIS recruiting accounts? Will he unban Trump? Alex Jones? He's not a free speech absolutist, he's just making room for his personal ideology. He doesn't need to ban leftists to achieve his goal of pushing them off the platform.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  Why is it "his personal ideology" when he's one in charge, but simply "twitter's rules" when the previous CEOs were in charge?
  - sascha_sl 4y ago
    Because Twitter policy wasn't informed by a single person until now.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      Alright, the why is it not "group ideology"?
      - sascha_sl 4y ago
        This is senseless. You can just keep moving the goalpost. If I gave you arguments based on sociological consensus you'd just declare sociology woke groupthink too.
        _aavaa_ 4y ago
        I have not moved the goal post. My objection in the original comment was that the discussion was framed in terms of musks' ideology vs the current non-ideology status quo. It wasn't Musk's beliefs, or world view, or political leaning, but his ideology. The only reason its framed this way is since the comment I originally replied to disagrees with Musk. If he was coming in and doubling down on Twitter's choices it would suddenly stop being ideology.
  - socialismisok 4y ago
    Because there are differences in how the rules were created. Presumably previous rules involved policy teams and moderation teams and legal teams. Elon rolling in and being like, "Unban these people even though they've broken the rules" is clearly a different mode.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      > Presumably previous rules involved policy teams and moderation teams and legal teams. Presumably is doing some heavily lifting here. But either way, my point stands why isn't it "group ideology". Simply because it was made by committee doesn't change the connotation used. If someone opposed to Musk's views later takes control of twitter and restores everything to the current status quo, will that also be done using "personaly ideology"?
      - socialismisok 4y ago
        Yes, of course it will. Plenty of historical events have a group setting the initial culture or laws, then a dictator comes in and changes them. If another dictator comes in later and reverses them, that second person is still a dictator. If Elon sells to, I dunno, Zizek, and sudden changes occur, of course I'd say the new leftist leaders were enforcing their personal ideology. Is it so hard to believe that someone can be a leftist and not also critical of the left? A dictator is a dictator, and it's bad, no matter their ideology.
        pessimizer 4y ago
        > A dictator is a dictator, and it's bad, no matter their ideology. Musk is a dictator now? Why does everybody have to be the next Hitler?
        socialismisok 4y ago
        No one said he was. Not all dictators are Hitler. But they are still dictators. My friends, engineers at Twitter, are saying they received demands they work overnight to deliver features and changes last night. He's absolutely a dictator within Twitter.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > Will he unban ISIS recruiting accounts? Pretty extreme example but pretty sure aiding terrorists runs afoul of some US laws... > He doesn't need to ban leftists to achieve his goal of pushing them off the platform. Seems like they're the ones who don't believe in free speech. They can stay, no?
  - orwin 4y ago
    Pretty sure if i post parts of the anarchist cookbook i'll be banned in less than an hour. Explaining how to make a sniper from a commercial rifle and how to find 5.56 AP from military surplus got a friend banned from FB. It was either that or the following post about a chemical company CEO car plates and usual tour. Luckily he lives deep into the woods, so according to him (through his friends), FBI agents waited for three days near his postal box before just leaving a mail asking him for an audition. Didn't get charged, but lost his FB account. It made organizing my trip to the US hell, as Messenger was at the tine the best way to reach him. I'm still bummed to have learned that despite the lower killing potential, the NRA still don't fight for sniper rifles and commercial true AP rounds (you can still get AP for rifle with a lead core, which will go through bodyarmor btw, but nothing to go through a Limo :/). It feels like it goes against the second amendment.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fallingknife 4y ago
  Why is it that if you allow both left and right, the left will leave?
  - socialismisok 4y ago
    Because it's happened again and again on parler, gab, coat, etc.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    The "left" catches constant bans on twitter. Democrats won't leave; it's just pretending, like when rich people say they'll leave the state over taxes, or when Democrats said they'd leave the country if Trump were elected. It isn't that they don't want to see things said that they don't agree with, it's that they don't want things that they disagree with to be said, anywhere. Leaving twitter would just mean FOMO on all the stuff that people were getting away with saying.
muaytimbo 4y ago
Evidence, that basic thing that is always absent from assertions like the one above.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  The evidence is plain. Observe who gets unbanned. Observe who gets to operate again. I guarantee you it won't include all ideas. Want to be a radical terror org on Twitter? Or a doxxer? Or revenge porn poster? Or a spammer? Or the klan? Skinhead neonazi group posting racist memes? Etc etc. I'm willing to bet these things stay banned. Because despite self describing as a free speech absolutist, he's really not comfortable being absolute about this belief.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    How can evidence from the future already be plain?
    - muaytimbo 4y ago
      read my mind, I guess the way to win an argument is to assert you already know future outcomes.

socialismisok 4y ago

Will he unban ISIS recruiting accounts? Will he unban Trump? Alex Jones? He's not a free speech absolutist, he's just making room for his personal ideology. He doesn't need to ban leftists to achieve his goal of pushing them off the platform.

_aavaa_ 4y ago
Why is it "his personal ideology" when he's one in charge, but simply "twitter's rules" when the previous CEOs were in charge?
- sascha_sl 4y ago
  Because Twitter policy wasn't informed by a single person until now.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Alright, the why is it not "group ideology"?
    - sascha_sl 4y ago
      This is senseless. You can just keep moving the goalpost. If I gave you arguments based on sociological consensus you'd just declare sociology woke groupthink too.
      - _aavaa_ 4y ago
        I have not moved the goal post. My objection in the original comment was that the discussion was framed in terms of musks' ideology vs the current non-ideology status quo. It wasn't Musk's beliefs, or world view, or political leaning, but his ideology. The only reason its framed this way is since the comment I originally replied to disagrees with Musk. If he was coming in and doubling down on Twitter's choices it would suddenly stop being ideology.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  Because there are differences in how the rules were created. Presumably previous rules involved policy teams and moderation teams and legal teams. Elon rolling in and being like, "Unban these people even though they've broken the rules" is clearly a different mode.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    > Presumably previous rules involved policy teams and moderation teams and legal teams. Presumably is doing some heavily lifting here. But either way, my point stands why isn't it "group ideology". Simply because it was made by committee doesn't change the connotation used. If someone opposed to Musk's views later takes control of twitter and restores everything to the current status quo, will that also be done using "personaly ideology"?
    - socialismisok 4y ago
      Yes, of course it will. Plenty of historical events have a group setting the initial culture or laws, then a dictator comes in and changes them. If another dictator comes in later and reverses them, that second person is still a dictator. If Elon sells to, I dunno, Zizek, and sudden changes occur, of course I'd say the new leftist leaders were enforcing their personal ideology. Is it so hard to believe that someone can be a leftist and not also critical of the left? A dictator is a dictator, and it's bad, no matter their ideology.
      - pessimizer 4y ago
        > A dictator is a dictator, and it's bad, no matter their ideology. Musk is a dictator now? Why does everybody have to be the next Hitler?
        socialismisok 4y ago
        No one said he was. Not all dictators are Hitler. But they are still dictators. My friends, engineers at Twitter, are saying they received demands they work overnight to deliver features and changes last night. He's absolutely a dictator within Twitter.
Mikeb85 4y ago
> Will he unban ISIS recruiting accounts? Pretty extreme example but pretty sure aiding terrorists runs afoul of some US laws... > He doesn't need to ban leftists to achieve his goal of pushing them off the platform. Seems like they're the ones who don't believe in free speech. They can stay, no?
- orwin 4y ago
  Pretty sure if i post parts of the anarchist cookbook i'll be banned in less than an hour. Explaining how to make a sniper from a commercial rifle and how to find 5.56 AP from military surplus got a friend banned from FB. It was either that or the following post about a chemical company CEO car plates and usual tour. Luckily he lives deep into the woods, so according to him (through his friends), FBI agents waited for three days near his postal box before just leaving a mail asking him for an audition. Didn't get charged, but lost his FB account. It made organizing my trip to the US hell, as Messenger was at the tine the best way to reach him. I'm still bummed to have learned that despite the lower killing potential, the NRA still don't fight for sniper rifles and commercial true AP rounds (you can still get AP for rifle with a lead core, which will go through bodyarmor btw, but nothing to go through a Limo :/). It feels like it goes against the second amendment.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fallingknife 4y ago
Why is it that if you allow both left and right, the left will leave?
- socialismisok 4y ago
  Because it's happened again and again on parler, gab, coat, etc.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  The "left" catches constant bans on twitter. Democrats won't leave; it's just pretending, like when rich people say they'll leave the state over taxes, or when Democrats said they'd leave the country if Trump were elected. It isn't that they don't want to see things said that they don't agree with, it's that they don't want things that they disagree with to be said, anywhere. Leaving twitter would just mean FOMO on all the stuff that people were getting away with saying.

muaytimbo 4y ago

Evidence, that basic thing that is always absent from assertions like the one above.

socialismisok 4y ago
The evidence is plain. Observe who gets unbanned. Observe who gets to operate again. I guarantee you it won't include all ideas. Want to be a radical terror org on Twitter? Or a doxxer? Or revenge porn poster? Or a spammer? Or the klan? Skinhead neonazi group posting racist memes? Etc etc. I'm willing to bet these things stay banned. Because despite self describing as a free speech absolutist, he's really not comfortable being absolute about this belief.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  How can evidence from the future already be plain?
  - muaytimbo 4y ago
    read my mind, I guess the way to win an argument is to assert you already know future outcomes.